Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
The trouble with big government is...
Groucho48 posted: So, I looked around a bit, and found...surprise, surprise!...that the story of this atrocity is full of distortions and omissions.
Quote: For starters, the context in which all of this occurred was a public school pre-K program run by the state popularly known as “More at Four,†but now called the generic name “NC Pre-K.†In order to have a child enrolled in this program, which has a limited number of slots, the parents must actively choose to enroll, with priority going to “at-risk†children, to wit: special needs children and (importantly) low-income children. Indeed, to even be eligible for the program, the child must either fit in one of those two categories or have a parent on (or about to be called on) active military duty. Enrollment as an “at-risk†child means that the child’s enrollment is fully subsidized by the state, regardless of whether the day care is private or public.
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The original story’s claim that the relevant regulation applies to all pre-schools is also false – to the contrary, it applies only to pre-schools choosing to participate in (and eligible for) the subsidized program.
The original story further obscures that in no circumstance was this child – or any child, for that matter – being forced to eat the school-provided lunch, nor was this child -or any other child – deprived of her boxed lunch. Instead, as the second linked story acknowledges, the child was just provided with additional food and given the option to consume that in addition to her boxed lunch. In other words, the claim that the school “replaced†this girl’s turkey sandwich, banana, apple, potato chips, and juice with chicken nuggets is totally bogus.
By and large, what this story boils down to is that a low-income child whose tuition is fully subsidized by the state under a program her mother opted into was offered some additional food to supplement the boxed lunch she brought from home. This option was provided not because of some overarching, generally applicable law or regulation, but because the program in which her mother and school voluntarily participate requires such an option be available. The mother apparently objects to this option being provided to her daughter, not because of any health concerns or the like, but because she incorrectly believes that she will be charged additional money for her child being provided this option. Since she won’t in fact be charged for this and there is no evidence she was ever going to be charged for it, there is absolutely no harm actually being done to her or her child.
Since this is also an opt-in program, there is no chance of this becoming some sort of generally applicable concern even to the extent there is some sort of nanny state concern here. If the mother has some sort of ethical problem with her child being provided with the option of drinking milk or eating vegetables at school, then she is surely free to send her child to an unsubsidized day care program.
tl;dr...typical right wing demonizing of what sounds like a program to help poor kids.
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Rosaria Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly. Posts: 477 Registered: 2003-8-22 10:07:30
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
The trouble with big government is...
Groucho, you know as well as I do that its complete folly to believe anything just because its in e-print. Wait a week, wait until more information is obtained and all the facts are in. I read what you posted but don't, as I said, necessarily believe any of it. There is no reason why I should. Its hard for me to believe that a school would give such a young child chicken nuggets to supplement a turkey sandwich. That's ludicrous. Why would they? She or he is not a linebacker for the high school football team. Did they give her anything at all? Is this an example of an over-reaching government? I don't know. I will never be in a position to experience that first hand unless private schools are outlawed.
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Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
The trouble with big government is...
Rosaria posted: Groucho, you know as well as I do that its complete folly to believe anything just because its in e-print. Wait a week, wait until more information is obtained and all the facts are in. I read what you posted but don't, as I said, necessarily believe any of it. There is no reason why I should. Its hard for me to believe that a school would give such a young child chicken nuggets to supplement a turkey sandwich. That's ludicrous. Why would they? She or he is not a linebacker for the high school football team. Did they give her anything at all? Is this an example of an over-reaching government? I don't know. I will never be in a position to experience that first hand unless private schools are outlawed.
The Groucho article seems far more plausible, especially given the response of the principal in the other article.
That said even if it is false and we take the original story at face value it is still a non issue.
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F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
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Rosaria Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly. Posts: 477 Registered: 2003-8-22 10:07:30
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
The trouble with big government is...
Sin_of_Onin posted:
Rosaria posted: Groucho, you know as well as I do that its complete folly to believe anything just because its in e-print. Wait a week, wait until more information is obtained and all the facts are in. I read what you posted but don't, as I said, necessarily believe any of it. There is no reason why I should. Its hard for me to believe that a school would give such a young child chicken nuggets to supplement a turkey sandwich. That's ludicrous. Why would they? She or he is not a linebacker for the high school football team. Did they give her anything at all? Is this an example of an over-reaching government? I don't know. I will never be in a position to experience that first hand unless private schools are outlawed.
The Groucho article seems far more plausible, especially given the response of the principal in the other article.
That said even if it is false and we take the original story at face value it is still a non issue.
The issue with the Latino children is a bigger issue and maybe indicative of fraud. If this happened its indicative of stupid. I still am having a hard time believing that a pre-K kid, meaning younger than 5, would eat a banana, turkey sandwich, milk, and chicken nuggets for lunch unless they were well on the way to joining the legions of obese kids in America.
PS I'm also having a hard time accepting the fact that schools are providing balls of fat and salt to kids while admonishing parents about appropriate nutrition.
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"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
The trouble with big government is...
Rosaria posted: The issue with the Latino children is a bigger issue and maybe indicative of fraud. If this happened its indicative of stupid. I still am having a hard time believing that a pre-K kid, meaning younger than 5, would eat a banana, turkey sandwich, milk, and chicken nuggets for lunch unless they were well on the way to joining the legions of obese kids in America.
WTF are you talking about?
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"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
The trouble with big government is...
Rosaria posted: The issue with the Latino children is a bigger issue and maybe indicative of fraud. If this happened its indicative of stupid. I still am having a hard time believing that a pre-K kid, meaning younger than 5, would eat a banana, turkey sandwich, milk, and chicken nuggets for lunch unless they were well on the way to joining the legions of obese kids in America.
PS I'm also having a hard time accepting the fact that schools are providing balls of fat and salt to kids while admonishing parents about appropriate nutrition.
My son has the following for his lunch:
2 pieces of rye bread, buttered with a single slice of turkey, ham, smoked salmon or other sliced meat on it.
1/2 banana
4" of cucumber
3 snack (cherry) tomatoes
1 bunch of grapes (usually ~15)
With a 'fruit snack' for later
The other half of the banana
1 kiwi
4 strawberries or half an orange
....he's 3.5 and his lunchbox is empty. When he gets home he has a bowl of yogurt with some oatmeal on top because he's 'starving'.
He's 110 cm (~43.5 inches tall) and 48 pounds (22 kg)
ETA:
Sometimes he gets a small bag of shrimp as a treat too.
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Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
The trouble with big government is...
Rosaria posted: Groucho, you know as well as I do that its complete folly to believe anything just because its in e-print. Wait a week, wait until more information is obtained and all the facts are in. I read what you posted but don't, as I said, necessarily believe any of it. There is no reason why I should. Its hard for me to believe that a school would give such a young child chicken nuggets to supplement a turkey sandwich. That's ludicrous. Why would they? She or he is not a linebacker for the high school football team. Did they give her anything at all? Is this an example of an over-reaching government? I don't know. I will never be in a position to experience that first hand unless private schools are outlawed.
I agree, we should be cautious about believing anything we see on the net. If the Outpost was a court of law, this case would have to be dismissed for lack of evidence.
However, this is just a forum. So, the level of evidence is a bit lower. The link says that the girl was offered milk, vegetable soup and chicken nuggets. This was stated in a link from a blog calling itself "North Carolina's Conservative Voice", which said it talked to the mom.
Quote: The mother, who doesn’t wish to be identified at this time, says she made her daughter a lunch that contained a turkey and cheese sandwich, a banana, apple juice and potato chips. A state inspector assessing the pre-K program at the school said the girl also needed a vegetable, so the inspector ordered a full school lunch tray for her. While the four-year-old was still allowed to eat her home lunch, the girl was forced to take a helping of chicken nuggets, milk, a fruit and a vegetable to supplement her sack lunch.
I tend to believe alleged facts when they are presented by an advocacy blog even though they hurt the argument that blog is trying to make.
The program gets funded if and only if it gets good marks. It got bad marks earlier in the year because many of the home lunches weren't up to snuff. So, it doesn't surprise me at all that the program would provide a lunch tray in any remotely questionable situation.
But, this is all over right wing blogs. Even Rush talked about it. One kid given a food tray and a special program for poor kids is demonized as being Big Government at its worst. I mean...really? I know the right is petty, but... really?
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