My team's?

lol

My position has been pretty clear on both issues as has yours. It is not like I am holding something back.

 

-----signature-----

If welfare, someday, prevents me from needing to murder old people in their sleep for the gold in their teeth, in order to pay rent or afford food, I'm all for it.

 

-----signature-----

Sorry. your opinion just lines up nearly exactly with all the dems I know. And that's not an insult. I know fairly educated and informed people.

I didn't mean to accuse you of carrying dem water so much as to accuse you of expressing failed and failing current ideas.

 

-----signature-----

I am not aware of my position on either issue being law in this country. There are plenty of countries that use some of the policies I have suggested and have seen the results I predict would happen in the US.

I am aware of your position on health care being law and failing horribly though. I am aware of times when your idea of trade policy was used and it just screwing over both labor and the consumer.

 

-----signature-----

hahaha as opposed to the workers paradise we've been building for the last four decades? Where median wages for those in the lower half of the workforce haven't risen ten percent? Are you kidding me?

I get that you think it would be helpful to decrease the cost of labor by taxing and spending a lot of the costs out of living for the poor and lower middle class. I disagree with you that it is a good idea and think it would be bad for MANY reasons, but I agree it would help the labor balance and maybe even be a necessary cure right now. But I don't see how you can argue freer trade and labor laws as better historically for labor than labor protection based enterprise. I can't even fathom you saying that.

you must view history through a strange prism. Or I am completely wrong about my understanding of history. Which I suppose isn't out of the question.

 

-----signature-----

You keep acting like I think the status quo is what I want or that I think it is honky dory.

You also keep acting like a tax is a cost in a way that paying for it directly isn't.

The history of trade is pretty clear. It drives growth as does industrialization. Free trade implies a lack of manipulation. The last 40 years of trade have been marked by manipulation. I am also a proponent of not just free trade but trade policy that recognizes the impact of trade on the labor market and places an emphasis on balanced trade. UHC is part of that. IT doesn't have to be but there is no denying that it is part of it and there are reasons to do it outside of the impact on the potential impact on the labor market.

What Obamacare will demonstrate is just how inefficient our system(private insurance) is at covering everyone the morality of our nation demands.

 

-----signature-----

Without reading any of the text from this slap fight I'm going to predict that if I did I would find that GrilledCheez is wrong and Sin_of_Onin is wrong and belligerently stupid.

 

-----signature-----

Coming from you that hurts.

 

-----signature-----

Yes it was. It didn't cause the economic problem but it was what turned it into the great depression.

the problem with that type of system is that eventually you run out of other people's money to steal and you can no longer fund the system and you are mow left with more poor people than you started out with

Because as Grilled points out, welfare is a subsidy and when you subsidize something, you get more of it

 

-----signature-----