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Author Topic: America is the only country that ever nuked anyone [Locked]
Thugoneous  4 stars
Title: Watching Caliente, BRB.
Posts: 1,128
Registered: 2002-11-2 18:00:54
I think Yuki hates his American half and thinks if we didn't drop the nukes his blood would be pure.

 

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GrymmDAOC  1 star
Posts: 241
Registered: 2001-12-6 13:04:16
The Americans manufactured 500,000 purple hearts for the Japanese invasion. Clearly they were planning on a limited occupation with little resistance


 

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Clackdor  1 star
Posts: 163
Registered: 2001-9-21 12:10:52
Yuki, I wonder where you get your history.

Everything you say about the end of WWII is wrong.

 

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bstulic  3 stars
Posts: 761
Registered: 2002-7-26 04:55:00
Clackdor posted:

Yuki, I wonder where you get your history.

Everything you say about the end of WWII is wrong.



History is never accurate

 

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Yukishiro1  4 stars
Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
Koneg posted:

Yukishiro1 posted:

AFAIK there never were detailed plans drawn up.

You FAIK... wrong.


http://www.blackvault.com/documents/wwii/marine1/1239.pdf

Operation Downfall, 28 May 1945



A 20 page report? From before the battle of okinawa? That's your detailed plans? Seriously? There's less than a page on actual invasion plans. I have trouble believing D-day or the invasion of okinawa was coordinated based on one small map and a few sentences of what they actually planned to do. "Take kagoshima wan and ariake wan" is about like saying your invasion plan for America is "capture san francisco and L.A."


Incidentally, the report mentions the invasion of southern kyushu I was talking about, as well as a later invasion of tokyo, but that's it. I didn't know they had also planned the tokyo bit, which is interesting. I didn't see any casualty estimates but I'm pretty sure the estimate for Kyushu was about 65k.
Koneg  3 stars
Title: Evil Genius
Posts: 894
Registered: 2001-12-4 15:31:28
Yukishiro1 posted:

I didn't see any casualty estimates but I'm pretty sure the estimate for Kyushu was about 65k.

Which completely explains why, as pointed out, they went out and bought 500,000 Purple Hearts to get ready for it?

 

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Crackdoc  1 star
Posts: 236
Registered: 2005-10-7 12:55:29
Japan is an Island nation.

Their navy was pretty much finished at that point in time.


What reason could there have been to worry about their rebuilding when bombing runs and offshore naval bombardments could have cleaned up any such activity?


Answer those thought and then we'll get somewhere.

 

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DemonicXH  3 stars
Title: Camelot Vault Staff
News Editor

Posts: 584
Registered: 2003-12-1 08:14:17
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall


Quote:

Because the U.S. military planners assumed "that operations in this area will be opposed not only by the available organized military forces of the Empire, but also by a fanatically hostile population",[10] high casualties were thought to be inevitable, but nobody knew with certainty how high. Several people made estimates, but they varied widely in numbers, assumptions, and purposes, which included advocating for and against the invasion. Afterwards, they were reused in the debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Casualty estimates were based on the experience of the preceding campaigns, drawing different lessons:

In a letter sent to Gen. Curtis LeMay from Gen. Lauris Norstad, when LeMay assumed command of the B-29 force on Guam, Norstad told LeMay that if an invasion took place, it would cost the US "half a million" dead.[41]
In a study done by the Joint Chiefs of Staff in April, the figures of 7.45 casualties/1,000 man-days and 1.78 fatalities/1,000 man-days were developed. This implied that a 90-day Olympic campaign would cost 456,000 casualties, including 109,000 dead or missing. If Coronet took another 90 days, the combined cost would be 1,200,000 casualties, with 267,000 fatalities.[42]

A study done by Adm. Nimitz's staff in May estimated 49,000 U.S casualties in the first 30 days, including 5,000 at sea.[43] A study done by General MacArthur's staff in June estimated 23,000 US casualties in the first 30 days and 125 a revised estimate of 105,000, in part by deducting wounded men able to return to duty.[45]

In a conference with President Truman on June 18, Marshall, taking the Battle of Luzon as the best model for Olympic, thought the Americans would suffer 31,000 casualties in the first 30 days (and ultimately 20% of Japanese casualties, which implied a total of 70,000 casualties).[46] Adm. Leahy, more impressed by the Battle of Okinawa, thought the American forces would suffer a 35% casualty rate (implying an ultimate toll of 268,000).[47] Admiral King thought that casualties in the first 30 days would fall between Luzon and Okinawa, i.e., between 31,000 and 41,000.[47] Of these estimates, only Nimitz's included losses of the forces at sea, though kamikazes had inflicted 1.78 fatalities per kamikaze pilot in the Battle of Okinawa,[48] and troop transports off Kyushu would have been much more exposed.

A study done for Secretary of War Henry Stimson's staff by William Shockley estimated that conquering Japan would cost 1.7-4 million American casualties, including 400,000-800,000 fatalities, and five to ten million Japanese fatalities. The key assumption was large-scale participation by civilians in the defense of Japan.[1]

Outside the government, well-informed civilians were also making guesses. Kyle Palmer, war correspondent for the Los Angeles Times, said half a million to a million Americans would die by the end of the war. Herbert Hoover, in a memorandums submitted to Truman and Stimson, also estimated 500,000 to 1,000,000 fatalities, and those were believed to be conservative estimates; but it is not known if Hoover discussed these specific figures in his meetings with Truman. The chief of the Army Operations division thought them "entirely too high" under "our present plan of campaign."[49]

The Battle of Okinawa ran up 72,000 US casualties in 82 days, of whom 12,510 were killed or missing. (This is conservative, because it excludes several thousand US soldiers who died after the battle indirectly, from their wounds.) The entire island of Okinawa is 464 sq mi (1,200 km2). If the US casualty rate during the invasion of Japan had been only 5% as high per unit area as it was at Okinawa, the US would still have lost 297,000 soldiers (killed or missing).

Nearly 500,000 Purple Heart medals were manufactured in anticipation of the casualties resulting from the invasion of Japan. To the present date, all the American military casualties of the 60 years following the end of World War II, including the Korean and Vietnam Wars, have not exceeded that number. In 2003, there were still 120,000 of these Purple Heart medals in stock.[50] There are so many in surplus that combat units in Iraq and Afghanistan are able to keep Purple Hearts on-hand for immediate award to soldiers wounded on the field.[50]



The low ball was 105,000 casualties and that was deduced by men returning to combat.


You were saying?
Yukishiro1  4 stars
Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
Koneg posted:

Yukishiro1 posted:

I didn't see any casualty estimates but I'm pretty sure the estimate for Kyushu was about 65k.

Which completely explains why, as pointed out, they went out and bought 500,000 Purple Hearts to get ready for it?



I have no clue. You can see the various estimate numbers yourself. The vary from 30k to 1,000,000.


There was never a detailed plan to do any of it. Your document is from before the end of the battle of okinawa, for example. There was a lot of pressure to change the plans between then and august.
bstulic  3 stars
Posts: 761
Registered: 2002-7-26 04:55:00
If USA would keep same kill/death ratio as in previous battles, and lose 1 million soldiers, that would mean you would
kill 73 million Japanese people...did they even had that big population back then?

 

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