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Topic:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but [Locked] |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
Lasraik posted:
Rhint posted:
Rift suffers from the same thing that most MMOs do. PvP is an afterthought. Sure it is kinda fun, but it is meaningless and repetitive.
For PvP in an MMO to be and remain fun it has to be a centric idea of the game from the ground up. The only game on the horizon where this seems a possibility is GW2.
For PvP in an MMO to be and remain fun it has to be a centric idea of the game from the ground up
Name a game with a healthy population that this is the case.
EVE and GW.
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Docmandu  Posts: 240
Registered: 2005-7-12 00:54:17
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
Lasraik posted:
Rhint posted:
Rift suffers from the same thing that most MMOs do. PvP is an afterthought. Sure it is kinda fun, but it is meaningless and repetitive.
For PvP in an MMO to be and remain fun it has to be a centric idea of the game from the ground up. The only game on the horizon where this seems a possibility is GW2.
For PvP in an MMO to be and remain fun it has to be a centric idea of the game from the ground up
Name a game with a healthy population that this is the case.
Name 5 MMO's that actually ever tried this... point is.. I can only name one that tried it 10 years ago.. and that one is still around... rest is just trying to follow the "success formula" of WoW (problem is.. if you make something equal to WoW, you won't lure any of it's players.. since they have too much invested in their current toons to leave that all behind)
And there certainly is a market for PvP games... just look at how many people play CoD.. it's the second most played game in the world, next to WoW... well on raptr.im it actually beats WoW.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
Docmandu posted:
... rest is just trying to follow the "success formula" of WoW (problem is.. if you make something equal to WoW, you won't lure any of it's players.. since they have too much invested in their current toons to leave that all behind)
BINGO! Also should mention that Blizzard has hundreds of millions rolling in every month to keep WoW as polished as you'll ever see. It's the McDonalds of MMORPGs. Good luck unseating them if you're some Mom-n-Pop diner in Podunk, Arkansas.
Docmandu posted:
And there certainly is a market for PvP games... just look at how many people play CoD.. it's the second most played game in the world, next to WoW... well on raptr.im it actually beats WoW.
Is there PvE in Call of Duty? Or more specifically, is there required PvE to get your character able to compete in PvP?
Not that I know of. And yet still, it has a huge amount of players. Hrmph. I've always been told by carebears that I'm crazy to think a MMORPG could be successful if it didn't offer mandatory, loot-pinata PvE instead of ancillary, basic PvE as an adjunct to a primarily PvP world.
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Throw away your desires and treasures, and make sure to burn all the maps.
MMORPG
Mystaquetz in various forms.
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
loztpassword posted:
Docmandu posted:
And there certainly is a market for PvP games... just look at how many people play CoD.. it's the second most played game in the world, next to WoW... well on raptr.im it actually beats WoW.
Is there PvE in Call of Duty? Or more specifically, is there required PvE to get your character able to compete in PvP?
Not that I know of. And yet still, it has a huge amount of players. Hrmph. I've always been told by carebears that I'm crazy to think a MMORPG could be successful if it didn't offer mandatory, loot-pinata PvE instead of ancillary, basic PvE as an adjunct to a primarily PvP world.
a MMO*RPG* cant... because its not a FPS ... its a F#$%ing RPG!
and in a RPG people expect well.. an RPG... wich is dungeon crawls and killing bad monsters and getting shiny items.. thats what an RPG is, so MMORPG cant live without PvE
FPS ... like call of duty is a completely difrent beast... and there has even been attempts at fantasy FPS games.. Mythic made one prior to DAoC actualy, and there was hexen/heretic games... but they didnt catch on like other FPS's ... why... because people interested in fantasy games are usualy looking for RPG not PVP
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-=no pity for the majority=-
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
angryranger posted:
Lasraik posted:
Rhint posted:
Rift suffers from the same thing that most MMOs do. PvP is an afterthought. Sure it is kinda fun, but it is meaningless and repetitive.
For PvP in an MMO to be and remain fun it has to be a centric idea of the game from the ground up. The only game on the horizon where this seems a possibility is GW2.
For PvP in an MMO to be and remain fun it has to be a centric idea of the game from the ground up
Name a game with a healthy population that this is the case.
EVE and GW.
sooo EvE ... is pvp from the ground up huh?
realy... so thats why the game is not playable at all, period, in anyway possible.. without the PVE carebears...
thats right.. EvE doesnt work at all... without PVE...
ships in eve... built by players, resources for them only able to be gotten via PVE(mining for the most part)
most basic items to fit onto the ships in eve... build by players, again mostly mining for the materials...
some items drop from npc's ... but that is again PVE ...
ship rigs wich is an absolute must for pvp... come from salvaging ships.. mostly obtained... via PVE...
without PVE at its base... EvE colapses and falls apart...
just because the makers included PVP ... and pretty harsh PVP... doesnt make PVP the basis for the game... its still based mostly in PVE with 100% reliance on the PVE to sustain any PVP
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-=no pity for the majority=-
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gervaise1 Posts: 63
Registered: 2003-7-30 17:41:30
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
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Morgash posted:
Stands up to reason though, Doc, whereas his presumption does not. Fact is, pvp is a niche market, as far as fantasy centric mmo's are concerned. If you disagree, would you kindly name me one fantasy MMO that is pvp centric that survives today with a reputation for having been, and is currently considered successful?
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Don't disagree that that PvP is a niche market. As to the question however.
UO survives, was and probably still is sucessful if an XFire comparison with Darkfall Online means anything - see below. (Depending on how EA do their accounting!). Number of players not high today but it is still going.
Is GW a PvP mmorpg? Some would argue it isn't even an mmorpg. Financially though it passes the test. And it also passes the huge number of sales test.
Darkfall Online is an mmorpg and an openworld game at that. It is also sucessful - recent announcement that the game has paid off its development costs - no more debt interest it seems - meaning more money for development. By Xfire standards UO still has maybe 2x the number of players so if server costs are broadly comparable UO should still be profitable. (And yes it has crafting but as with UO you craft at your peril).
DAoC. Had a PvP element but lost it long ago. PvE centric crafting to some extent - although the focus has waxed and waned during the years. Probably not profitable now based on MJ/Lori saying that the last lot of staff cuts were necessary to prevent DAoC being shut down and since then things have got worse. Had a good innings however.
PotBS. A rocky start (way to many instances). However it has sorted itself out and moved to a F2P model however. PvP very much like that in DAoC essentially - ditto the PvE centric crafting. Is it the DAoC type model however or the setting that defines the niche? There are people out there who like ships; there are people out there who like Pirates; there are people who like historical based simulations. The PvP / Country vs Country type element may be secondary.
But - at the end of the day - PvP in mmorpgs is a niche element.
A final thought however. In computer gaming PvP is a niche but is it PvP that is the niche? Or is it the element of danger to live and gear that traces its roots back to pencil and paper D&D when not monsters - but the fellow members of your party (not just the evil and the chaotic stupid and good!) that could end up with you retiring a character sheet. DM moderated pencil and paper games; the ultimate PvE and PvP game. Capture that essence; get it funded; market the product well and you should be able to retire!
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Morgash Posts: 141
Registered: 2003-1-28 20:53:00
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
gervaise1 posted:
A final thought however. In computer gaming PvP is a niche but is it PvP that is the niche? Or is it the element of danger to live and gear that traces its roots back to pencil and paper D&D when not monsters - but the fellow members of your party (not just the evil and the chaotic stupid and good!) that could end up with you retiring a character sheet. DM moderated pencil and paper games; the ultimate PvE and PvP game. Capture that essence; get it funded; market the product well and you should be able to retire!
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Preparing For Impending Hyper-Inflation
Coming to a realm near you
E > P+DAOC
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Lasraik  Title: Chasing the tail of dogma
Posts: 277
Registered: 2003-11-13 00:14:47
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
angryranger posted:
Lasraik posted:
Rhint posted:
Rift suffers from the same thing that most MMOs do. PvP is an afterthought. Sure it is kinda fun, but it is meaningless and repetitive.
For PvP in an MMO to be and remain fun it has to be a centric idea of the game from the ground up. The only game on the horizon where this seems a possibility is GW2.
For PvP in an MMO to be and remain fun it has to be a centric idea of the game from the ground up
Name a game with a healthy population that this is the case.
EVE and GW.
You should play EVE before commenting, because its not a PvP centric game.
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http://www.furiant.org/ (formerly http://www.perforateartery.com )
Former DAoC guild/community moving to Guild Wars 2, looking to add more 
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Phatty001 Posts: 3
Registered: 2004-3-29 20:51:39
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
I played in three Rift beta's and I thought the game was decent. I didn't like the combat or casting style, it felt sluggish to me. I had a level 22 Cleric(before and after nerf) and just couldn't get into the game. Rift hunting was fun for a couple hours but the whole token system just sucks in my opinion. Even though I don't care for the game, it's nice to see a game making Blizzard nervous. Codename "Titian" anyone? lol
I would also like to add that a PvP/RvR game isn't a niche market, on the other side of the spectrum a PvP/RvR centric game is completely for a very small niche. People don't like to be forced to do anything, so having a game being centric to any play-style is niche. EQ and DAoC are examples of that, EQ=PvE, DAoC=RvR. It wasn't until WoW came around and offered players both options that a MMO saw some serious commercial success. For all of it's downfalls, World of Warcraft did one thing right and that's offer player options. You can be a hardcore raider or a hardcore PvPer.
I understand that WoW didn't launch with a PvP system in place but it didn't launch with 12 millions subs either. I feel the PvP system made the game whole and gave WoW the ability to reach those massive numbers.
Just my two cents.
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thepwnblog.com
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katnnip Posts: 8
Registered: 2006-6-24 10:30:36
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
RIFT - Tried it, in beta and live for last month but |
Daoc never advertised. WoW was everywhere...even on coke 12 packs.
Maybe there is a bigger market for players who truly would love the pvp....but they don't even know the option exists.
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Katlyrique - Alb
Nightyngales - Mid
Kattastrophy - Hib
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