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I don't agree with the comment that Classic servers destoyed doac's subscription base.


The logic that player A went to classic. And player B stayed. Then player B left cause Player A was gone, and player A came back to the original server, only to find player B gone, and quit himself is flawed logic.


Player A, who went to the clasic server was most likely just about to leave the game entirely anyway. So the classic servers helped delay, the massive exodus that was imminent.


and I find it hard to believe that Player B couldn't find any new friends? I mean you are assuming player B moved on to a different MMO. Where he would have to make new friends again, what's the difference between making new friends without going to a dif MMO?


and if Player A was leaving anyway without new Classic servers, then player B was leaving anyway too.


Classic serves didn't ruin daoc's population. Daoc did that by themselves. Classic servers just prolonged the agony of it.

If a new server is too risky and so many people want something new,what is so bad about allowing char COPY'S to mordred??

 

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Agreed, TOA ruined the game. Tons of my friends quit shortly after TOA went live.

 

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er, um..


Mordred is not the 'something new' people are looking for. We all know what Mordred is, a poorly thought out grey gank free for all pvp server. It lacks many of the elements that make ffa pvp enjoyable.

Daoc was not originally intended to be a free roam pvp game. So Mordred is not ideal for 'something new', it's just broken differently, but broken none the less.

A pvp server like Mordred needs to be something other than a modified 3 realm system. It needs to be designed from the beginning as a ffa pvp game.

ToA was a great expansion with one major problem: They destroyed the "middle class;" the players who got by with neither the best gear, but were content to live well with a mix of mostly crafted and some unique/quested items, which was also enabled them to remain competitive.

ToA forced the middle class to get rich or get left behind. The gap between the haves and have nots widened, and since most people became "have-nots," they simply became discouraged and left. But for those who say ToA destroyed this game, they forget that DAoC's population remained strong for another 10-12 months after ToA released, so it is not fully accurate to say ToA "destroyed" daoc, it didn't.

ToA's content was not the problem; nor was it necessarily the conditions that were originally required to get scrolls/arts/MLs; it was first and foremost that there was no alternative to these new items. There was no inbetween: You either got the Artifacts, or you sucked ass. That was the foremost flaw of ToA, imo.

Its important to understand that ToA + NF essentially re-invented the game for two more years. That is significant, because DAoC was originally designed to last for two years. That's it. And when they were successful beyond their wildest dreams after two years, they put out the "new" version of DAoC (ToA+NF) hoping to get two more years.

Third, and perhaps most significant of all, is that about a year into ToA, World of Snorecraft released. Within a couple months of WoW's release, DAoC saw its population drop about 40%. That was the real killer of DAoC, and WoW's popularity sealed the fate of DAoC more than any other factor.

So did ToA kill DAoC? Based on the population numbers for nearly a year after it released, you can say definitively that ToA did not kill DAoC. However, it did make other games more appealing, especially the super simple and dumbed down World of Warpuff.

IMO, WoW killed daoc more than anything. But ToA was a very well done expansion as far as content is concerned. But they obviously failed to understand the importance of the crafting community, which practically died overnight after ToA.
The single most significant thing they could do to re-invigorate the popularity of this game is to overhaul the crafting system and restore it to the prominence it held pre-ToA.

They should pay me for that suggestion, but I am in a generous mood today.

 

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The population graphs show tremendous growth right when the expansion was released. This always happens expansions are released. Despite the influx of new people, most of them do not stay. When people say TOA destroyed DAOC they're referring to all the people that had been playing up to that point. People that didn't just buy the latest and greatest and move on in 6 months to a year. These are the veterans we lost that are masked by those who bought the expansion and then decided daoc was not for them when the shine on their new toy wore off. This is how the game was destroyed, by cannibalizing their existing user base for quick money.

 

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Yeah, I figured we could all understand that and it need not be mentioned. The reality is, most games will see *at best* a 6-month bump from initial growth from release. ToA populations were still 1500+ for most servers, with 2500-3k on prime times for Guin/Lance/Merlin. That's as good as it ever was, and ToA held that population until WoW released.

The release of WoW and the subsequent drop in population brings us to an obvious conclusion. I disagree 100% with your suggestion the ToA pop was due mainly to "new growth from release," since ToA was not marketed to "new players," but rather to the existing subscriber base.

 

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