Extra healing/support flexibility is OPd? Paper daoc doesn't suit bad players, so you may as well stop, unless you really think healing will be the basis of stinky groups getting beaten.



You make this post over one strength relic bonus for a few days, yet no posts over the cumulative time that Albs had at least one bonus to each, and sometimes two to one in addition to one of the other. Such as this summer when there were groups with two Mercs riding out the 20% strength relic bonus. If people are going to bring the single relic bonus of Hib over these few days, then you also have to look at the other times when they had nothing.

 

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Bah so much going on... The core of any group is great support, this gives Hib some choices to play around with... I have always been a fan of healer/support class heavy groups (the endurance to sustain long fights and recover from adds and collect the win was much better). This patch will solidify hib that much more... rather then gets upset I would be optimistic as what this could mean for the other secondary support classes in the furture...

 

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If Mythic cant be consistent with making changes across the realms Id prefer they just quit messing with crap.Time and time again they have shown their inability to fix major flaws they have introduced while trying to fix stuff,this game wont survive these knee jerk fixes that introduce balancing issues imo.

 

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I quote myself,



Not to mention, Hib is the inferior realm right now when it comes to group combat, and i'm not talking about population issues either. And Wardens are pretty incommon groups these days, so its actually a win-win situation, except for you who doesn't play Hib so you have a disposition towards Hib, and you might not win as much as you used to.

I think the greater heal is a good thing to add. I don't think the group heal will be OP, but it might not be the best thing for the class. Their job is to peel/bodyguard, and when not doing this, to be on the frontlines providing celerity to other tanks and assisting in their duties, with the nice bonus of being able to throw in heals if necessary. Warden shouldn't really be a pure healing class, but with a group heal it might be harder to justify giving them improvements in other area's.

 

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At this point in the game who dosent play hib?or alb?or mid?


The population will have no problem swinging to where the best new cheese is and winning there.

 

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lol, 6 damage slots huh? I guess Minstrels & Sorcs are DPS in your world? Or are you suggesting they run around on Hastener speed and not bother with such silly things as AoE CC.





lol! Nooo! Certainly no tank train ever gets the idea of focusing on a healer while support keeps the others interrupted, that obviously never happens! And in those cases all that defense won't matter a bit either, you're obviously much better off just running and getting hit in the rear then facing them and block/parry/bt up to half the attacks against you. Gotcha!

I just hope we use this same logic when we finally get Paladins the Greater Heal spell they've always needed just as much as Wardens in order to become a group-worthy class! (Of course this is the place where you're going to tell me Paladins are fine too...just like Heretics are fine! If you say so, it must be true!)


Wardens are going to make Rejuv Friars look like choir boys, which wouldn't be a bad thing if Bards didn't also do that on top.

It's OK though, if any realm deserves to have such silliness it's Hibs. At this stage in the game I'm not going to suggest that a single spell is going to instantly turn Hib into the FoTM realm that rolls over the other realms with ease. It may even work out to be more balanced then I imagine, simply because Hibs consistently face higher numbers then Albs/Mids, but that doesn't change the principle of the matter that a fundamental precedent is being changed based on a knee-jerk reaction to complaints.


I'm fine with Wardens getting GH! It's Bards that need to lose theirs in exchange, just as was originally planned by Mythic. Apparently this was even planned many months ago, so I wonder how months of careful design got wiped away by a few days of complaints on VN over something that wasn't even tested?

Again, Bards were specifically normalized to other primary CCers and given Root & Mess Dampen for exactly that stated reason, as well as given another insta DD to again bring them in line with the other primary speed classes, no matter how absurd that is considering how unlike the other 2 they are. Now I just want to see the same standard applied to Bards when --for once-- it doesn't favor them! That is to normalize them by removing GH from them when giving it to Wardens, and thus not breaking the "1 secondary healer per realm" precedent.


Bah, who cares, nothing is going to change at this point anyway. They're not going to do a 180 twice in a row on this anyway, so it's not worth the VN drama.

I hope it works in pulling at least some hard core FGs to Hibland just for lolz.

 

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Dumb. If anything, you would count the Theurg as less dps as the Sorc is getting debuffed for. Secondly, Mind Sorcs balance CC with dps (or are supposed to). Thirdly, Minstrel can provide speed with dps of its pet and taking out weapon to proc, unless you're keeping your instrument out the entire time, which only bad ones do.



Any group that just trains like that is bad. You're dedicating multiple people of your group onto one person of the opposing group. This means more of the opposing group will be free more often, leading to a numerical disadvantage of your group. The only time you train is when casters and support are locked down or CCed, not while the rest of your group is trying to lock down or CC them... At that point though, it's just to spike quickly and down something. Until then, you have to split if you're fighting anything competent. Feel free to name any good group that trains, because the few that do are god awful and just run around mainlands playing red is dead. Ywaint good. TF outta here, or at least stop posting about group combat mechanics.




Paladins need help getting groups mostly because Alb casters have the synergy to CC off each other to the point where the advantages of a Paladin was only used in circle fights (snares, stuns, and battlemaster). There's a reason that the Alb FOTM setup was Sorc Cab Theurg Minst Merc Heretic Friar Cleric for two and a half years on Devon and Ywain. But I'm sure you knew that...




It'll be pretty much the same as a Friar with some traded passive abilities (hot with no timer, heal proc, and group end redux for pbt and secondary speed). Friars are also more likely to heal for more due to the fact that Warden abilities are spread throughout more lines, and are given fewer spec points. It's possible to make a pure Reg Warden like a Rej Friar, but that ignores a lot of the benefit of having a Warden. Friars were given more spec points based on the premise that a significant part of those points would be used for melee. However, players found a loophole to play as a group's main source of healing and just use the extra spec points to be able to give the passive effects of Enh with 46-50 Rejuv while still having a stun chain and/or side snare.




There were valid complaints that existing groups that did not have Wardens (Bard, Druid, Druid) would lose greater heals without gaining anything unless a significant number of people rolled Wardens, and that small mans without Druids would lose greater heals as well. The extra healing won't be game-breaking, really. The outcry against it was too big, so they gave it back in a pretty unfortunate situation. I felt the trade to Wardens was fair too.

 

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6 dps in alb groups.

Ya Sorcs do dps.. And minstrels do pretty good too especially for how tough they can be to kill.

Tank trains

Really? When was the last time you played. They haven't been a seen in ~5 years and haven't been a factor for another 2-3 on top of that.

Paladins & Heretics

Heretics get a variety of groups paladins as a class are solid but they don't fit with that many group schemes and alb groups have gone so caster/pet heavy that a lot of melee classes just don't fit in.

Wardens vs the world

A support warden is now a viable class. In one sense, as support it's as much a new class as adding a savage was. It's not an overpowered class in any sense tho so shut up about it. Other classes are that need some viability should get addressed not because of wardens but because they need something.

Bards

So by your standard we can go ahead and take away endo regen buffs from Alb and Mid since it was designed as a bard only, Hib only feature. I'm pretty sure every bard and hib only player in the game would be fine with losing greater heals as soon as that happens. Let us all know when the campaign for that starts chief.

Hib with more heals in a group

Part of the reason hib is bad in fg fights is that to get similiar resists and utility as mid/alb 4 slots have been used up by support. It's not very viable to run bard druid druid warden because in today's game you don't do enough dps. Mid runs 3 healing classes and alb tends to run 2 sometimes 3 and alb generally is considered the toughest to kill. Notice a pattern?? In a group with x/8 support it's better if x is smaller. Every group has capped hp. You can't heal more than that. All the time in a group that is spent while someone has 100% health the healing spot is a waste. If you have that x4 and they have very limited offensive abilities which both bards and wardens (far more than sorcs and minstrels and heretics and paladins eh) do the group is gimped.

 

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fine take away bard heal spell

if your bard is healing

1. your bard sucks
2. your druids suck

take it from the druid trainer, bards dont heal.

 

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