These arguments always seem to go 'round and 'round . . . It seems to me what I'm about to type I've already stated in the last couple days, but since I can't find my old post to cut-and-paste, I'll just reproduce it here.


Zxae already mentioned it. But here it is:


A zerker = caster damage on a tank class.


A caster = well, a caster.


That is, the zerker does his damage on the move (he does not have to stand still), and is uninterruptible (not counting CC, which interrupts casters too). /stick, doublefrost, doublefrost, doublefrost, vendo if you aren't killing as fast as you like. That, AND the zerker has bucketloads of hit points, being on the main tank HP table. The armor isn't the best, but the HPs make up for that, and the armor is definitely better than a caster's.


The -only- advantage a caster has over a zerker when it comes to damage is the ability to do it at range.


In every other way, a zerker is superior. Damage is the same, and a zerker can do it on the move, while taking damage, and stand a lot longer while doing it. Heck, when it comes to damage, Midgard might as well not even have any casters at all.


Other classes can deal incredible damage in melee, but that is counterbalanced by disadvantages. Assassins' damage is entirely dependant on circumstance, and they can't take hits. Heavy tanks can deal massive blows, but do it very, very slowly. Zerkers on the other hand are capable of dealing incredible damage all the time, with hardly any effort, and with none of the disadvantages of casters. In fact, with hardly any disadvantages at all.


For that matter, when it comes to sheer melee efficiency in a group, why roll anything other than a zerker? To me, the fact that a single class can dominate to such an extent is the sign of imbalance.


And now I will go to bed.

Just to put in my two cents, zerker damage dont bother me any as a cloth wearer. Sure they hit hard, but I have hit some classes for almost 2k damage with pbae before (with crit of course). Granted i dont hit tanks like that, but should i be able too? <shrugs>

 

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"Sure they hit hard, but I have hit some classes for almost 2k damage with pbae before (with crit of course). Granted i dont hit tanks like that, but should i be able too? <shrugs> "


please lie more, even with MoM 5 and a max crit in RvR its not possible to hit anywhere near 2k.

 

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**I got nuked for 750 and then 500 today, wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. I have nearly maxxed resists and AOM 2... waaaahhh.. She only had 75k realm points! And I was not debuffed!!


Whoops.. Back on topic...


Sorry about that, but I wanted to get my complaint in for the day.. **


Was it PbAe? If you have the super resists + AoM you say, and you and the caster are the same level and you were not de-buffed, the only possible spell is PbAe. If it wasn't Pbae, then I'd sure like to shake this caster's hand.


If it was PbAe... Once again.. Why did you just stand in the center of it while they were casting? Interupting don't take much, unless they are MoC'ing.... Then just back out of the PbAe field until 14 seconds is up.


**Just to put in my two cents, zerker damage dont bother me any as a cloth wearer. Sure they hit hard, but I have hit some classes for almost 2k damage with pbae before (with crit of course). Granted i dont hit tanks like that, but should i be able too? <shrugs>**


Bullshit, if you and the recipient of the PbAe are both lvl 50, there is no way you’ll hit anyone for almost 2k, even with a perfect RvR crit and if they have NO resists to Cold/Spirit/Energy depending on you’re PbAe.


Let’s see…. 48 + 15 Manna, Wp 2, Rank 6 – I hit a level 1 mob for my cap of 1007.


Now pretend that I just stood on a level 1 player and hit for my cap… then got a PERFECT RvR crit.


1007 + 503 = 1510.


(My average on a level 50 player with 0 Resists, and no AoM is 750 or so I believe)


Now that’s not even near 2 k damage and that’s the BEST I could do against a level 1 player, please explain how you did nearly 2K to assuming a equal level player that has resists, and possibly resist buffs and maybe AoM?


My PbAe’s average does 350-600 depending on the certain targets, resists, RA’s, buffs etc.


So please explain how you could nearly hit 2k damage, I’m rather curious. If you really **did** do that on a equal con lvl 50, that has decent gear then my apologies.

 

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Sanger: Wonder why, scratch your head and move on. I’m sure you can contain your amusement, right?


Olorin: You are resting on quite a few assumptions, such as the type of battle it was and the circumstances of it. You assume that I was in a caster heavy group during that fight, but if you would pay attention you could see exactly who was in my group at the time:


One enchanter, 2 heroes, 2 druids, 1 bard 1 warden and 1 blademaster


You then played out a scene in your head that was completely incorrect as to what actually happened. I was mezzed, but I purged it and thus it was nullified. I got off many good attacks on the healer before I ran out of endurance, because my bard had died. So what if I had protected my bard?


I would have been able to stun one attacker and then use my spear on him while the other 2 bezerkers killed the bard, as the healer healed the whole time.


I dont think I like this scenario any better than what actually happened. Try and bitch about how we used poor tactics or we did this wrong or we did that wrong but frankly, being not there during the fight, you have no idea what did happen and also, what I did do was not the "incorrect" way of doing it. At least I kept the healer from healing the entire fight, but as you can see, it meant little.


It just plain boils down to bezerker damage, which is inexcusable. You will see 2 attacks for 700+ one for 900+ and one for 1000+ I fail to believe that all four attacks were critical attacks and even if they were they should not be that high. I could possibly accept a critical attack of 700+ once in a while, but not every time I come in contact with a gerbil. Some make it seem that this sort of damage is rare and only the uber d00dz can do it (and even so, no one, not even these d00dz should have the ability to do so). But I am here to inform you that this is not rare, indeed, it is very frequent for every time I come in contact with a bezerker, regardless of realm rank I get hit harder than any 1h slash user should be able to attack. If you want me to post every bloody screenshot of every encounter I have stored on my hard drive, I will. Maybe that will shut your ignorance (directed at no one in particular, )


Lastly, I am not here to talk about battle tactics and whatnot; this thread is about zerker damage and even if lanalee's attacks were from behind and using back styles (which they weren’t, mind you) this damage is inexcusable.

zerker issues aside, you might want to try a RA respec, staggy.


if you're so worried about zerk damage, drop your ip (and fa), which is only circumstatially useful and pick up avoid pain. not as if you don't already get a free self-heal...i don't even get that luxury. it's essentially a mini bunker that you can carry in your pocket on a 15 minute timer.


right now, i have avoid pain 2 and let me tell you, zerks do laughable damage for a full minute with that RA running. the utility and the ability to use it OFTEN (15 min is absolutely nothing) outweigh the high cost (aug con 3 as prereq) of the ability.


granted, you will get hit for slightly more by an axe zerk due to scale resists and slightly less from hammer zerks, also due to scale, but i'm sure you get the picture.


another point...if you're serious about RVR, i'm sure you already carry around the 75af alchemy buff charges (i have them in the form of MP woolen gloves), so that's even more damage potentially taken away (hib and mid af buffs from seer/naturalist classes won't be much help...af charges are essentially our way of leveling the playing field with albs, who have a speccable af buff). if you don't, get some now, they're quite helpful. if you don't want to, you really don't have any right to complain about zerks, as complaining about damage dealt automatically places you in the min-max game of RVR.


anyway, sorry to sidetrack the thread, but those are two things that you can do other than whine to counter zerk-like melee damage right now.


EDIT: nevermind, sorry...looks like she really did just spam doublefrost, unless bleed damage gets calculated with DA damage.

Lanalae was hitting me for 700+ the other night at the Dun Crauchon siege without being berserked. She hit me for over 700 on four out of 12 hits, none of them berserked. I wasn't the only one she was hitting either, she hit and killed, four other people standing where I was.


(and all through the inner door of crauchon when we were standing a full siege rams length away from the door, but that's beside the point)


To dismiss her damage because of her realm rank is irrelevant. Realm rank does not account for that damage, nor is it a valid argument when determining class balance. (If it was, rogues and casters would have ignore pain, and archers would have mastery of concentration)


To dismiss her damage because she was obviously buffed is also a moot point. With the massive use of buff-bots as well as most groups being buffed to the hilt in RvR, it is to be EXPECTED that you AND your enemies have these kind of buffs.


Lastly, to cite her damage as being acceptable because of the huge endurance cost associated with her styles WOULD be acceptable, if midgard didn't have a 10 minute duration non concentration cost end regen spell available to them.


End regen for midgard coompletely unbalanced berserkers and shadowblades, and now the only way to fix it is to reduce left axe damage, and re-evaluate critical hit calculations. (or remove the end regen from the realm, but that won't balance zerkers on gaheris or the 'dreds, now will it?)


In short, there is no legitimate and reasonable argument for the class, or the style line to be doing that sort of damage.


As for the comment about mana enchanters being overpowered:


-When compared to all of the other non-SI casters in the game I agree, they are overpowered. Compared to melees and archers, I disagree. They're what all casters should be capable of in my opinion: all damage, no defense.


On to the topic of resists:


Staghorn has 28% slash resists, and his armor has -10% slash resists. This is a net of 18% slash resists. Staghorn can't get any better resists. Staghorn's armor is epic armor. That is 100% quality AF100. I am sorry, but having AF102 armor all the way around at the same quality will not reduce his damage by more than 2% or so, even with RR5.


That healer has 19% thrust resists by calculating from the damage messages. Note that this is AFTER his armor takes the 10% penalty mid chain has to thrust. So, Gramse does NOT need to work on his thrust resists, as they are already at 29%, which would be capped for his race.

Acri-


"all damage, no defense. "


I understand that, and I was just being silly.

That, my friends, happens to my Thane all the time. Just we are middys, so we arn`t supposed to cry like this cos we get flamed to hell and back if we do!

 

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I've given up on these threads, they are so sad. From now on I will just taunt with this image.


Level 50 cleric <3:


http://users.rcn.com/ckiepert/DAOC/SS/new/skegg.jpg


Note the lefthand weapon: Cleaver 4.0 speed .


Thats <3 right there. Not that pansy WBA or handaxe in the offhand. I gimp myself just to be fair to the players of percival!!!!!


P.S. : Thats with less than 1700 weaponskill, so much for that idea.