Then who are bezerkers balanced against? Other bezerkers when they duel? And don't say casters, because that's EVERY melee's weak point.


In fact, bezerkers share the same weaknesses that other melee classes do, WITHOUT being weak to other melee classes. And don't come off with your, "x class with x spec can pwn my bezerk!1!111!!" defense that many bezerkers use. The fact is, that bezerkers can kill in RvR much more often, and much quicker than any other melee class, without a significant penalty to their defense. In fact, a zerk who doesn't Frenzy, will still outdamage any of the other realms tanks classes, while hitting faster. That is overpowered.

Doom and gloom,


You are missing the point.


You do NOT compare any class to any other class.


You compare how effective a REALM is vs the other REALMS.


That is how Mythic looks at balancing. If you are not sure, go ask the devs what they look at for balancing purposes.


Its not 1 v 1 or 8 v 8 or even 50 v 50. Its Realm v Realm. Over the long term.


But if that is a little above your head, then go ahead and keep on with the nerf this and nerf that cries.

 

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Lef,


I am not missing the point. Sure, it's realm versus realm. But how do you accomplish this? By class balance. How do you propose you balance a realm, if not through its classes? I am not asking to balanace bezerkers because of 1v1 performance. I am saying that their degree of brokeness is causing a REALM IMBALANCE. And due to this REALM INBALANCE, I think they should be balanced. Either that, or balance all the other tanks up to compensate, and then all the rogues, and then all the casters, and then all the support classes. Which sounds easier to you?


There is validity to class balance. Classes should be proportionally as powerful as each other, or else you have classes that are not played. Everyone pays the same 11 bucks a month to this game, they should not be penalized by which realm they play in, or which class they chose. Can we at least agree on that?


But if that's a little above your head, keep up with your Bezerkers aren't Broken thread.

Lef, then explain why archers and smite clerics were nerfed. They didn't affect realm versus realm situation so much as they did solo situations.

Justifying Berserker damage by comparing it to the damage given out by polearm, LW and CS users is the weakest argument one can make. Polearm, CS and LW users are SUPPOSED to hit very high in melee, but only do so because they sacrifice speed. Berserkers do not sacrifice speed but hit harder than any LW, CS or Polearm user. On average I hit an enemy between 350-450 with my player crafted MP, 100%con barbed spear (strongest spear in the game). In duels with LW users, whether it is a sword or a hammer, they never, ever hit me for more than 500. I am not experienced as a Polearm user and rarely get hit by them so I cannot comment on their damage, but based on the comments by Armsmen, they also have similar average hits. As I have said before, I have never struck a hit over 850, and I never strike a hit on an equal leveled player for more than 450 or so, and then only rare. When I crit it is a different story, but I rarely crit, even with MOpain 2.


The fact is that Berserkers swing faster and hit harder than any other melee class/weapon/spec combination in the game and not only that but they hit harder than most mages as well, who are designed to hit the hardest. Indeed, I very much doubt that every Berserker hits for 1000 every time they swing; that was not my point. But most Berserkers do hit for 500+ even when not using Vendo, and 2h weapon users cannot do that. This is why Berserkers are broken and this is why Mythic needs to fix them.


As far as saying that Mythic only looks at how a realm fights against a realm, look, everyone knows that the only way to win relics and keeps is to have a bigger zerg. If you have the biggest zerg, no matter who is in this zerg or what class combinations there are, you will win if you out power your enemy with numbers. The only reason realms are comparatively competitive is because each realm does have a rather large pool of players at its disposal. One cannot judge the usefulness or compatibility of a single class based on how a realm in general fights with another realm. To better understand a class and to test it to see if it is overpowered, you look to the 8 on 8 battles, the smaller battles, where each side has relatively similar classes with relatively similar RAa's and so forth and where the outcome of the battle is dependant on the minute adjust ments of each class. You tally the results of each encounter, how the damage is played out, which classes live longest, kill the most, deal the least and most damage etc. and if you see a pattern, you will know how to address it.


The pattern is that more and more mid gank groups are bringing more and more berserkers with them simply because they are the best offensive weapon in the game. This morning I ran into the same mid gank group and (despite being called a liar by the very person who was in this group) they had 4 berserkers with them. The pattern is that all other classes get mowed down by berserkers because berserkers can deal out an insane amount of damage in a very short time, spam F8 /stick and bang, another enemy down.

Doom,


The fact that you have a hard time tinking of how to balance the realms without comparing class v class is why your not a game designer.


Where one class in one realm is going to be stronger then the rest, another class is going to be weaker. When looking at the BIG picture, it all balances out.


Example,


Midgard has the best light tank, but the worst heavy tank.


Hibernia Has the best heavy Tank, but the worst light tank.


This is a pretty simple example, and actual balancing is going to be more indepth.


But what you do not do is say, het class A in Midgard is more powerful then class C in Albion, we better nerf down class A. becasue maybe Class A is more pwerful in oder to Balance out the fact that Class E in Midgard is less powerful in other areas.


Its all about the BIG picture.


That, in a VERY simplistic way is hwo you Blance REALMs and not Classes!


Now, you can go back to your nerf this and nerf that talk, becasue I know it makes you feel empowered.

 

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Kowyn,


Becasue they ( archers and smite clerics ) casued an imbalance in their own realms...


removing the necessity for other classses because they WERE so overpowered.


Mythic has already looked at zerker balance in the last 6 months and nerfed them down to thier current point. Mythic feels that zerkers are working as intended.


Also, actually playin in Midgard I can attest that Glooms observation on the massive increasxe in zerker population is altogether inaccurate and exaggerated.


Yes there are more zerkers, but that is more to do with the gimpness of the warrior class then the ubahness of zerkers.


And there is no shortage of Shaman, Savages, Shadowblades, etc.


Ther ye go. Now I think I am done with this altogether pointless debate. For the fact remains that everyne has already made up thier minds and no one is really listening to what anyone else is saying..


You know, all that strutting and fretting, signifying nothing...


Out.

 

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First off, I've been saying that warriors should get a unique weapon to Midgard just like alb/polearm and hib/CS for a LONG time.


Second, Raix... heh, no comment, you're clueless.


Third, Lef, .... nah, I'm sick of trying to explain to the ignorant [edit] like you why zerker dmg is out of hand. Go back to sucking your momma's tit kid.


All I can say is until all you mids have been out in the field going against these zerkers, you have NOTHING to say, so just stfu.


Edit: brainless mids aren't worth getting banned over.

 

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<<Midgard has the best light tank, but the worst heavy tank.>>


If worst meaning highest damage, then yes. But that isn't the definition of worst. Warriors do not have to sacrifice spec'd damage for defense. The others do.


<<Hibernia Has the best heavy Tank, but the worst light tank.>>


Again damage dealt doesn't signify best and worst. The Hero is a damn good heavy tank, but I see no reason balance why to label it better than the warrior.


<<But what you do not do is say, het class A in Midgard is more powerful then class C in Albion, we better nerf down class A. becasue maybe Class A is more pwerful in oder to Balance out the fact that Class E in Midgard is less powerful in other areas.>>


Clearly Zerkers do more damage than Mercs and BM's and do not suffer any more defensively than they do, and they do more damage than polearmsmen and spearos. I don't say that Zerkers should do less damage than those classes, I'm saying they shouldn't do that damage at the speed in which they do it.


<<Becasue they ( archers and smite clerics ) casued an imbalance in their own realms...>>


What imbalance in their own realm? Lack of healing? We dealt with that, it was a pain but we dealt with it. They were nerfed purely because they did too much damage and could kill without difficulty. I never heard a single Albion ever utter the phrase "God damn I wish these scouts would stop shooting the mob and just guard me!"


<<Mythic has already looked at zerker balance in the last 6 months and nerfed them down to thier current point. Mythic feels that zerkers are working as intended.>>


I doubt that. I have yet to see Mythic come out and say "We're not doing anything to the zerker because it's working as intended". Clerics were nerfed and now 6 months later they were rebalanced. Zerkers will have another come-around too.


<<Also, actually playin in Midgard I can attest that Glooms observation on the massive increasxe in zerker population is altogether inaccurate and exaggerated.>>


The 40-50 zerker population went from 126 in August to 258 in January. Doubled in 4 months. Of course that's also due to simple server growth.


<<es there are more zerkers, but that is more to do with the gimpness of the warrior class then the ubahness of zerkers.>>


The warrior isn't gimped, just dull.

Clueless? lol...righttt.


The clueless ones are the ones who been posting here none stop about "zerkers to do much dmg" , "zerkers are overpowered" ... "Im a caster, I got 1 shoted by a zerker" etc etc etc... every week on the wrong boards.


Still!, what have you accomplish from whinning here?


Send your whines to http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=5176

or

http://vnboards.ign.com/board.asp?brd=22205


And let them deal with you