Arch_Magi:


Once again you should not speak on issues you know nothing about.


It is called Alpha because we still INTEND on breaking it, but as Maddy said, we want to get it out to as many plugin devs as possible so they can START updating their plugins. We released it at a "Beta" quality but still calling it Alpha because of our intention on breaking things.


Also.. Elgar was one of the very first devs to start alpha testing. This was intentional. Then again you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the happenings of the Decal Development or Testing, so you probably shouldn't discuss these topics seeing as how you know nothing about what's happening behind the scenes.

Whatever Drak, I know more than you think I know, and I know how the professional software industry as well as the Free and Shareware community works. I know what is an "alpha" and what is a "beta". Call it what you want, do what you want, it doesn't matter. "A rose by any other name is still a rose."


I'll stop posting now, not because you are right, but because I don't feel like drawing a ban.

You've officially declared you won't help anyone here, which is fine by me and is totally up to you and the other devs.


You've directed all posts to the official site, and even created a forum for users to help other users.


You posted a link so that developers could get a working copy, and knew that end-users would take advantage and use the link. In my case, I'm extremely thankful because it means I can run Decal again. I accept if there is an issue, well, tough cheese.


My point? Its been said time and time again - Just. Ignore. These. Posts.


You've already made your disclaimer, you've already complained about supporting it (don't blame ya), so ... drop it. End users will continue to download, install, mess up, complain - heh, same as with an official release. All that is happening is you are getting frustrated.


Seems simple to me.


/e shrug

 

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100% in agreement.

Huh? You don't want me to correct misinformation?


What Arch_Magi has been saying is MISINFORMATION.


I owe it to some of the users to clear up misinformation.


Sorry that the truth hurts, but I owe that to users as well, and the truth is, many of the people who have downloaded the alpha most likely should not be using it.


I can't help it that I tell people things they don't want to hear. I tell them the truth. I don't sugar coat it or play as if it's ok... because it isn't. As for your comment Loki.. I did actually give up on posting anything in this thread until I saw more misinformation from Arch_Magi. The minute I don't see anything that needs to be cleared up is the minute I stop posting about Decal issues here.


If people don't ask, I don't tell. It's not like I run around constantly creating my own threads talking about how most people shouldn't be running Alpha Decal. I tell it to the people who seem to not know it already, and anyone else happens to click in (like you or Arch_Magi) and start bringing up the same debate over and over again. I wasn't posting to you. I was posting to the original poster who may not know any better. Chances are, when I post, I am usually posting toward the author of the post I'm replying to.

You want the truth Drak?


You know why there was a "Public Alpha" where everyone could get ahold of it? Because people were whining and moaning that Decal was taking way too long to complete, so you caved into "public pressure" and released a "Public Alpha" and then made all the disclaimers saying "Use at own risk, we ain't gonna help you if we don't want to, etc" ... which is FINE.


Then you guys threw a hissy fit (you know you guys are getting good at that, first when Turbine changed the ToS about Macros, now the latest ones), and said "No more support on vnboards (which is fine, provide official support on your own boards, but PLEASE don't come here and tell people what to do, it just makes you appear "power hungry" and then YOU go off and say "stop using Alpha 3, use Alpha 4, because we don't need people testing Alpha 3 because we are about to release Alpha 5 and bugs were fixed in Alpha 4. Fine, that is logical, for your TESTERS and Devs, but not for those of us who you "abandoned" to use what you PUBLICALLY RELEASED (you know, just like the words on the Decal Site say .. PUBLIC ALPHA).


Basically, you guys aren't happy with anything.


So, here are my suggestions:


1) If you want to only provide support on your own board, fine. But don't come here and tell people to shut up when people are helping other "end users" out because you won't. If they want "official support", they know where to go.


2) If you want people to test "Alpha 4", that is fine too. Recruit people to do it. I'd suggest on your own board.


3) If you don't want people using Alpha 3, then disable it. You put that feature in the software. You can't just do #4, because the cat is already out of the bag.


4) Put a password on your site and only allow "testers" to use the Alphas. You guys wanted "complete control", that is why you moved support and information to your own site. Spend 30 seconds and set up a password on the release. But we know that won't happen, because the "masses" would hate that, and even fewer people would actually test your software.


5) Stop reading threads like this if you are not going to provide support. It only frustrates you and annoys others.


Again, those are my suggestions, use them as you will.


Have a nice day.


P.S.





Yeah, right.


Sell that one to someone who is buying it. People here know what the meaning of the word "Alpha" is, and what "Beta" is. You claim that is why you keep posting, to "correct me". Sorry, not buying it.


Alpha, Beta, and Gamma testing


In software development, testing is usually required before release to the general public. This phase of development is known as the alpha phase. Testing during this phase is known as alpha testing.


In the first phase of alpha testing, developers test the software using white box techniques. Additional inspection is then performed using black box or grey box techniques. This is usually done by a dedicated testing team. This is often known as the second stage of alpha testing.


Once the alpha phase is complete, development enters the beta phase. Versions of the software, known as beta-versions, are released to a limited audience outside of the company. The software is released to groups of people so that further testing can ensure the product has few faults or bugs. Sometimes, beta-versions are made available to the open public to increase the feedback field to a maximal number of future users.


Testing during the beta phase, informally called 'beta testing, is generally constrained to black box techniques although a core of test engineers are likely to continue with white box testing in parallel to the beta tests. Thus the term beta test can refer to the stage of the software—closer to release than being "in alpha"—or it can refer to the particular group and process being done at that stage. So a tester might be continuing to work in white box testing while the software is "in beta" (a stage) but he or she would then not be part of "the beta test" (group/activity).

"ou know why there was a "Public Alpha" where everyone could get ahold of it? Because people were whining and moaning that Decal was taking way too long to complete, so you caved into "public pressure" and released a "Public Alpha" and then made all the disclaimers saying "Use at own risk, we ain't gonna help you if we don't want to, etc" ... which is FINE."


You're trying to tell ME why there was a Public Alpha? Are you forgetting I'm one of the insiders? I'm one of the ones MAKING the decision? And you sit there and try to tell me I'm wrong, and try to tell me the "truth" as to why there was a Public Alpha? *laughs* keep fooling yourself. It's obvious you aren't listening to anything I'm saying, and I think you don't understand my role in the development of Decal.


As for the support.. *I* never said I was stopping support here. a FEW of the Decal Devs said they will not longer provide support here. That is NOT official for everyone. That is THAT DEV which will not be providing support... as for Decal Support, yes.. it SHOULD be on the Decal Forums. That's just the obvious thing to do.. if you want support for ANY Software, chances are, you should go to the Support section of that product.... their Support Forums usually.


The reasons for public release was because of management issues with the userbase. We didn't have the time to go through and add EACH PERSON to the alpha test and give EACH PERSON individual access would take WAY longer than any of us were willing to spend. We also admitted that the initial public release was actually a BAD IDEA and in retrospect we admitted we made a mistake. The damage on that is done.


As for support in THESE threads.. I AM providing support.. I'm supporting Decal. the support for OLD VERSIONS of Decal is to UPGRADE. I don't care if it doesn't work with ELTank. That isn't my problem. And next time, I'm going to personally delete old versions from the site regardless of if tank works with the new versions or not.


The only reason we DIDN'T delete it was because Tank didn't work with Alpha 4 and we didn't want to screw Elgar out of development and testing time. HE was aware of the problems and HE was willing to accept HIS support issues for Alpha 3 (which he does on his board).


As for the correcting you.. I wasn't correcting you about what the worlds "alpha" and "beta" mean.. although you DO have them wrong in the sense of our testing cycles. Alpha is an initial cycle where there are PLANNED breakages. We PLANNED to break the interfaces of WorldFilter, ACHooks, and most of Decal. You do NOT call a product BETA if you PLAN on making breaking changes. That's just dumb. If you don't believe me, ask ANY software ENGINEER with experience in the software lifecycle. The product was brought up to a BETA QUALITY before it was released which means it had very few, if any, outstanding BUGS. Don't get the term QUALITY confused with the state of the product. The STATUS of Decal is Alpha because of breaking changes. The QUALITY of Decal is Beta because of it's bug count.


What I WAS correcting you on was Elgar being involved in the testing. You made it sound as if we didn't talk to Elgar ever and we left him out in the cold to work on his own. That is simply not true and is misinformation.

<< Basically, you guys aren't happy with anything. >>


They (Decal devs) or you aren't happy with anything? I'll say the latter.


In your definitions you posted, did you happen to look up the meaning of the word "usually"? Anyone can copy/paste from Wikipedia, understanding what you copy/paste is another issue. Plus taking Wikipedia as the "truth" can leave you bitten in the rear.


Here is another set of definitions for you, who is right? http://www.softwareqatest.com/qatfaq1.html


alpha testing - testing of an application when development is nearing completion; minor design changes may still be made as a result of such testing. Typically done by end-users or others, not by programmers or testers.


beta testing - testing when development and testing are essentially completed and final bugs and problems need to be found before final release. Typically done by end-users or others, not by programmers or testers.


Don't like those? I can google and get you some more and you'll see how in the software engineering industry there is no set definition of these terms. They tend to be close in that alpha means the software runs, but not with all functionality, and beta should be close to a finished product.

 

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Sure, feel free ...


http://dict.die.net/alpha%20software/


alpha software

n : a first release of a software product that is usually tested only by the developers.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/alpha+software


Noun 1. alpha softwarealpha software - a first release of a software product that is usually tested only by the developers


http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pvosta/pcrbioc.htm


Software Testing


Software testing is a process used to identify the correctness, completeness and quality of developed computer software. In software development, testing is usually required before release to the general public. In-house developers often test the software in what is known as 'alpha' testing which is often performed under a debugger or with hardware-assisted debugging to catch bugs quickly. This technique is known as white box or glass box testing.

It can then be handed over to testing staff for additional inspection in an environment similar to how it was intended to be used. This technique is known as black box testing. This is often known as the second stage of alpha testing.

Following that, limited public tests known as beta-versions are often released to groups of people so that further testing can ensure the product has few faults or bugs. Sometimes, beta-versions are made available to the open public to increase the feedback field to a maximal number of future users.


http://www.bitpipe.com/tlist/Alpha-Testing.html


Alpha Testing -- 1 Vendor Report

Testing a new product in pre-release internally before testing it with outside users.

Also called: Acceptance Testing


I'd also get the definition from several of the college text books when I got my degree nearly 2 decades ago, but I don't feel like driving home and digging into my old foot lockers. But hey, like I said, this is only symantics. You guys can and will do as you like.


Getting back on track, the question "Anyone know where I can find decal alpha 3? Decal site only has alpha 4" was asked. The answer was given. Then the "finger pointing" and lectures about people not supposed to be using "old software" came up. The simple fact remains, that if someone wants to use "old software", they can. The Decal Devs have not pulled it from their site, so what is the big deal? I mean it isn't like they pulled it and someone else is hosting it (to which the only course of action would be to disable Alpha 3), no, Alpha 3 is still available from the source ... The Decal Devs own site. If they truely want people to stop using it, they can, with a few simple keystrokes, but they choose not to.

5 seconds with google also finds this:


http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/alpha_version.html


"A very early version of a software product that may not contain all of the features that are planned for the final version. Typically, software goes through two stages of testing before it is considered finished. The first stage, called alpha testing, is often performed only by users within the organization developing the software. The second stage, called beta testing , generally involves a limited number of external users."


It seems like you are selectively choosing definitions to back your point. Notice the above definition includes "may not contain all of the features that are planned for the final version." This definition more closely resembles the decal dev's position on this matter. Given that there are a variety of definitions for what should be classified as alpha software I would suggest you take the definition provided by the decal devs. After all, they did state their position on the stages of decal development clearly and in advance of any public release.


As for who gets to test the software, I see a lot of phrases like "usually", "generally", and "most often" but I have yet to see a definition that states that "all" public testing is beta testing.


It must be really depressing to be wrong so often.