Have you ever thought it's because I don't want it to help whiney little ungrateful asses like you? I code, provide and support a plugin for 5+ years. I host a website and provide daily technical support for all that time, paying the costs out of my own pocket. Heck I even pay for and provide the hardware that hosts the forums.


I do all this for no profit and you come here whining because you think I owe you something? Do you also whine like that when your parents don't let you stay out late? You seriously need to stop thinking of yourself for once. It will come back and bite you on your ass one day.


The real reason I don't release the source code is because I no longer support Turbine. Turbine have been taking increased subscription fee's for a long time now, without providing a reasonable level of support and content. We have less devs and less support than we did before the price hike. We pay more, but get less in return. If I keep maintaining ELTank or release the source then I'm still supporting Turbine.

They can't provide a decent sized Dev team or even reliable Envoys, I'll not support them when all they are doing is milking this game and ignoring their playerbase.

Elgar ... you are not supporting Turbine - hell you won't even hurt THEM. Want to know who you are supporting and helping? I'll tell you ...


It's people like me ... yeah, ME! Over 10 years ago, I saw the first signs of carpal tunnel syndrome. Since then, I've had to give up damn near EVERYTHING I really enjoyed doing because of my wrists. Now I'll be honest, and admit to all here, I was one of those ElTank detractors for a very long time. I toughed it out, and managed to get my mages (yeah, I have a couple) over 126. It took me forever, because unlike my melee characters, there was no "auto smack" to use ... every spell had to be cast by hand. Yes, I used Infinity (and I mourn its loss, but understand why Mesaten is not trying to rewrite it for ToD) to buff. Yes, I used Bandit Sight (I miss it too) to help me find the things I wanted to grab. And I used Oracle of Dereth to help me find coords quickly, or plot routes for allegiance members. But the day to day "wear and tear" of playing my mage was rapidly catching up with me ... A friend told me (for like the 100th time) get ElTank - it will help cut down on the pain ... just TRY IT! I finally did.


Elgar, you have helped me be able to enjoy playing my mages again. Yes, I've allowed the program to help me with combat at times, usually in a dungeon. To be honest, it fascinates me how well it works to not only select the critter, but then dispatch it. Can I do things faster? Yes, and that is why I don't use it out of a dungeon environment. Have I ever UCM'd? Nope, I've worked too hard to develop my characters to chance losing them in that fashion (and with my HORRIBLE luck, I would!!! ). Please don't be so shortsighted as to think you are supporting Turbine by continuing to maintain ElTank. In the end, the ONLY ones who will truly be hurt by its loss will be folks like me (and there are MANY) who love to play this game, but need a little something to help us out. Please reconsider ... and continue to "fix" ElTank for those of us who truly are helped by its existence. We may not always say it, but we ARE grateful for it, and we DO appreciate your efforts.

 

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Thank you Ashake, I do understand what your saying, but if I were to carry on support of ELTank I'd have to make commitments I couldn't guarantee I could keep. For one I (soon) won't have an account to test any fixes on. To borrow one would be to break the CoC of AC, which I'm not willing to do. I never have and never will break the rules of the game. The only alternative is to resubscribe an account. That would be paying Turbine, and that's something I'm unwilling to do. In my opinion They no longer deserve the loyalty or the subscription fees.


If I were to give the code to someone else I again would be supporting Turbine in that I'm helping them retaining players. I'm providing functionality which is extra to the raw client. I'm aiding them in keeping players subscribed. It might be different if they made some effort to show support for the game themselves. If they even made the simplest of attempts to provide a quality service and patch updates. AC is being supported by those loyal Turbine employees who I feel have also been abandoned by those in charge.


There are capable coders out there who could take over the upkeep and maintenance of ELTank, although due to it's complexity and size it would take them a while to learn the code. I'm however uncertain as to their moral fibre to be able to keep it on the path that it's been on for the last few years. It's been difficult for myself at times as ELTank is the most public of macro plugins there is. It draws a lot of flak and attention. You have to have an extremely thick skin to be able to carry on your set path without being swayed by either side.

As you have seen macroing can be a problem. It's a very controversial issue and if such code were left in the wrong hands it could do a great deal of harm. AC is finally getting a bit of advertising. It has a chance of climbing back out of the rut it's currently in. If ELTank were handed to the wrong person it has the possibility of destroying what good might come of this advertising.


There is no way for me to know who is or isn't the right person. I can only trust myself, so can't in all honesty hand it over without risking it being the downfall of AC.

I used Eltank for ALONG time, sometimes I still do. I used it in the same manner as Ash does, but not for the same reason. It helped keep me alive in places where dialup lag would otherwise had killed me.


I understand completely why you would not want to release the source code. I can't imagine the time and effort you've put into it, BY YOURSELF, to make it what it has become today. I've gotten a small taste of it lately with Lifetank and trying to bring it around the corner to be more CoC-Friendly, which has made a few people unhappy but nothing unexpected... There are STILL parts of that source code I read from time to time trying to understand what it's doing exactly. Doing all that with Eltank solo from scratch... I've always been impressed with your work. I wish I could do some of the things you've done with tank, but I'm still learning, hopefully one day I'll figure it out =) I'd love to see the source just to read it, to see if I can understand how you did certain things.


I hope you fair well in your journey. I have always had respect for your work and support to the community, and still support your decision today.


-C

 

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Please, ElgarL, do NOT release the source code to El Tank to anyone. Better for it to die with dignity than to be hacked up by someone else - anyone else. I've seen lesser plugins turned into utter crap after being taken over by another dev. I can't imagine what a mess El Tank would become with someone else's grubby fingers under the hood.


If someone wants to write an El Tank replacement, there is nothing in the world to stop them. In order to duplicate El Tanks functionality, your skills would have to be of a high enough level that you wouldn't NEED the El Tank source anyway.

 

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OK ... I can help solve one problem - I was routinely handed Mesaten's Infinity to try to break it, and I've managed to ferret out bugs for Zegeger as well. I'd be delighted to test Tank for you - lord knows I have enough accounts and different types of characters to find any problems and report back what and how they occurred. I'm also very conversant with my system, software and Decal (although not a programmer, I can usually figure out how to get things up and running for those in my allegiance).


As Zeg and Mes could both tell you, I'm quite thorough in my testing procedures, and I do my level BEST to get the plugin to crack before it gets out to the rest of the AC community. I also am very thorough in my reports as to exactly how and what was going on when the error occurred.


Please???

 

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Ashake, you misunderstand me when I'm talking about not being able to test the fixes. Many code fixes can be done blind and then checked by remote testers, but major changes require an active acocunt to test the code as you write it. Often what you think will work doesn't. It may take half a dozen versions until you get it perfect.


With the up coming GUI changes in decal it will require a major rewrite to a lot of code. That's something that can't be done without an active account to test each change as you do it.


Thank you for the kind offer, but it's not remote testers that would be required .


BTW: I suffer from RSI too. Both arms from elbow to wrist and the outer three fingers.

Ahh ... ok ... well then, here is the next question. Since you, too, have this issue - sounds like a bit worse than I, would it be totally inconceivable for you to sub for one time to fix it, then unsub - NOT for Turbine, but for all those players like you and myself who DO suffer this problem? I know about personal ethics and convictions - but Elgar, sometimes if we HAVE within us the knowledge and power to help others - we need to bend a bit in the wind to help them. The minor bending we do will be repaid many times over - as a monarch you know this. We both know many rely on the things Tank can do to help them truly enjoy their play - is there no way to make this work in your mind? One thing I've learned by being a monarch here ... sometimes the things I think are dear to me can be allowed to shift a bit if it means others will be helped for the shift.


I do understand your statements and feelings regarding what Turbine has or has not done - however, I do not necessarily agree with all of it. I do feel that they are committed to the game, and I do think they're trying to be responsive to the players. AC is their "flagship" game - they will not willingly let it go down for the count. Do not look upon this as supporting Turbine ... look on it as supporting those who have come to look to Tank to help them play something they love.

 

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Ashake - give it a rest, will ya? Leave the guy alone.

 

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Chaz, no offense intended, but bug out ... there are a great many people who use this plugin for reasons like ours, and would like to see it live on. Elgar and I are having a civil discussion regarding the plugin ... and many out there don't realize what is involved in bringing one to "life" for use. Even if in the end Elgar still chooses not to continue it, those of us who would like to see it continue will understand WHAT is involved more ... and perhaps appreciate those who take their time to make these plugins for our use.

 

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