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Topic:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" [Locked] |
GrimTempest  Title: Board Manager
Anime Aikousha
Posts: 977
Registered: 2001-12-21 01:36:49
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
each side is swaying more towards its outside fringes in beliefs and its being fueled by the opposite side in a vicious circle.
kind of to be expected really from a society thats finding its entertainment in things like reality tv though. its quite clear that we've learned nothing from the history of the roman empire other than how to emulate its spectacular fall so well. we need a good zombie apocalypse at this point.
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Ptilk  Title: Creepy old pirate
Posts: 2,359
Registered: 2002-2-13 14:52:58
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
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The people who think getting "ruthless" will get us anywhere, are the same ones who swore "shock and awe" would end the war in a week, they would then welcome us as liberators with open arms, and the war would pay for itself.
IOW....idiots.
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Kanga_Roo  Posts: 439
Registered: 2002-2-26 12:58:17
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
Ptilk posted:
The people who think getting "ruthless" will get us anywhere, are the same ones who swore "shock and awe" would end the war in a week, they would then welcome us as liberators with open arms, and the war would pay for itself.
IOW....idiots.
Why are they not ashamed? Why do those who shouted down opposition to these wars still post as if they knew it all?
I know you don't have the answer...maybe they are just too brainwashed to see
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BritonGuy Title: Serious Business
Posts: 1,567
Registered: 2004-3-4 20:43:50
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
GrimTempest posted:
just to point this out...but i never claimed that i thought changing them was the best solution. i just agreed with newts comment that we aren't ruthless enough to do it. which to me means we shouldn't be as invested there as we are, its a political game and nothing more at the state its in now. if they're going to change they have to do it themselves as their culture changes and that takes decades if not centuries. religion has alot of inertia where change is concerned.
we should be doing everything we can to keep them isolated and change them through less warlike means. war only baits them into crazier actions.
The Russians were ruthless and that didn't get it done either. Newt's comment was dumb. History tells us it's a dumb comment. There's no solution to Afghanistan because there's nothing to win, no point to the war, and no superior strategy to occupying an area like that.
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Briton Guy...persnickety...NEVER!  -Murron (truly)
Hawkson is the greatest. -Hawkson
Britonguy is usually right. -Onslaught on BT
“Do or do not... there is no try.†- Yodazami
Do you expect me to remember what I put in my mouth? -NSMachi
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BritonGuy Title: Serious Business
Posts: 1,567
Registered: 2004-3-4 20:43:50
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
GrimTempest posted:
its quite clear that we've learned nothing from the history of the roman empire other than how to emulate its spectacular fall so well. we need a good zombie apocalypse at this point.
The only thing that's clear in this thread is that you haven't learned from history. I think you're throwing out replies and comments without even knowing the history behind what you're talking about.
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Briton Guy...persnickety...NEVER! -Murron (truly)
Hawkson is the greatest. -Hawkson
Britonguy is usually right. -Onslaught on BT
“Do or do not... there is no try.†- Yodazami
Do you expect me to remember what I put in my mouth? -NSMachi
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GrimTempest Title: Board Manager
Anime Aikousha
Posts: 977
Registered: 2001-12-21 01:36:49
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
never start a war unless you plan to finish it. our country has become a habitual offender of getting involved and not finishing, this is what i think newt was referring to. not sure if he's endorsing ruthlessness or not since i haven't read the full context behind his comments.
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GrimTempest Title: Board Manager
Anime Aikousha
Posts: 977
Registered: 2001-12-21 01:36:49
|
Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
BritonGuy posted:
GrimTempest posted:
its quite clear that we've learned nothing from the history of the roman empire other than how to emulate its spectacular fall so well. we need a good zombie apocalypse at this point.
The only thing that's clear in this thread is that you haven't learned from history. I think you're throwing out replies and comments without even knowing the history behind what you're talking about.
careful you might hurt my feelings 
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Ptilk Title: Creepy old pirate
Posts: 2,359
Registered: 2002-2-13 14:52:58
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
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They are adherents of "faith based reality".
Facts are fungible in that world view, easily and equitably replaced by "interpretations of reality" instead of just reality.
In that way, they can honestly believe in anything they want to. If the facts don't agree with their opinion, just replace the facts with your preferred interpretation of them.
It's not a conscious decision for most people of this group of self deluded psychopaths, it's just what they learned by watching their chosen leaders do it. That's how 35% of the country can still question whether or not Obama is a citizen. It doesn't matter that the facts prove that he is, by "interpreting" the facts they can create a sense of doubt, and that is all they need. Same goes for the war in Iraq. Even though we know the administration was told, clearly and without caveat, that there were no WMD there, yet they went on TV and claimed there were....they weren't lying, they simply "interpreted" the fact in such a way as to state that they were there.
It's a psychosis and it's not treatable at this time.
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BritonGuy Title: Serious Business
Posts: 1,567
Registered: 2004-3-4 20:43:50
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
the_great_ontex posted:
I vote isolation. Their stupid teachings that *some* of them practice is not of our concern and shouldn't be. We're not the world's police force and we shouldn't be acting like it. Our involvement into that region won't change how they think about "infidels," in fact our relations with Muslims in general have gotten MUCH worse. They didn't attack us on 9/11 because they hated our way of life, they attacked us because we've been interfering with their way of life since the 80s and continue to
Not all Muslims want to chop the heads off of infidels and stone their wives in the street, I would actually say that part of Islam is a very small part that other Islamist don't agree with either. We have Christian groups that we obviously don't want to represent Christians as a whole also
I think you mean non-intervention. The difference is interventionists get militarily involved, and non-interventionists trade and welcome diplomatic talk. Non-interventionists avoid war, but still defend their own country. Calling non-intervention "isolationist" is actually spin by pro-war politicians and pundits who can't see the difference between Hitler sweeping Europe and a tribal people on donkeys.
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Briton Guy...persnickety...NEVER! -Murron (truly)
Hawkson is the greatest. -Hawkson
Britonguy is usually right. -Onslaught on BT
“Do or do not... there is no try.†- Yodazami
Do you expect me to remember what I put in my mouth? -NSMachi
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BritonGuy Title: Serious Business
Posts: 1,567
Registered: 2004-3-4 20:43:50
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Newt: "We're not prepaired to be ruthless enough to force them (Afghans) to change" |
GrimTempest posted:
never start a war unless you plan to finish it. our country has become a habitual offender of getting involved and not finishing, this is what i think newt was referring to. not sure if he's endorsing ruthlessness or not since i haven't read the full context behind his comments.
If he meant that, then it was even more dumb. Wars don't end like video games. You don't cross a finish line and reach a win screen. War is defined how the people at war want to define it, as is what events conclude the war.
We'll finish it when we go home.
-----signature-----
Briton Guy...persnickety...NEVER! -Murron (truly)
Hawkson is the greatest. -Hawkson
Britonguy is usually right. -Onslaught on BT
“Do or do not... there is no try.†- Yodazami
Do you expect me to remember what I put in my mouth? -NSMachi
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