| Author |
Topic:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry [Locked] |
warflea Title: Resident Mathematician
Posts: 44
Registered: 2001-8-22 12:57:18
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
-Ducky- posted:
I don't think we should be subsidizing corporations that post billions of profits a year. In other parts of the economy subsidies go to people or companies that are struggling or starting up and need financial assistance.
I think this halt to subsidies is just a show anyways. He probably knows it isn't going to pass and therefore can use the "no" votes to define Republican Congress and get a majority back. Or use it somehow on the campaign to his advantage.
I think the reason gas is the most efficient source of energy right now is because it is subsidized and others are not (to the same extent). If we put as much time and resource into developing a successful non-gasoline powered vehicles or if gas all of a sudden dried up you can bet that companies would be coming out of the woodwork overnight with ideas and efficient vehicles.
Struggling businesses shouldn't get subsidies for the same reason successful one's shouldn't. Government should not pick the winners. It is not our collective fault when a company fails, it is the company's fault.
And you are right, this is all politics. The Republicans won't support his measure because he doesn't only want to cut the subsidy, he wants to move it around. They won't support subsidizing more companies like Solyndra.
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jeune  Posts: 216
Registered: 2005-5-29 13:25:11
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
warflea posted:
-Ducky- posted:
I don't think we should be subsidizing corporations that post billions of profits a year. In other parts of the economy subsidies go to people or companies that are struggling or starting up and need financial assistance.
I think this halt to subsidies is just a show anyways. He probably knows it isn't going to pass and therefore can use the "no" votes to define Republican Congress and get a majority back. Or use it somehow on the campaign to his advantage.
I think the reason gas is the most efficient source of energy right now is because it is subsidized and others are not (to the same extent). If we put as much time and resource into developing a successful non-gasoline powered vehicles or if gas all of a sudden dried up you can bet that companies would be coming out of the woodwork overnight with ideas and efficient vehicles.
Struggling businesses shouldn't get subsidies for the same reason successful one's shouldn't. Government should not pick the winners. It is not our collective fault when a company fails, it is the company's fault.
And you are right, this is all politics. The Republicans won't support his measure because he doesn't only want to cut the subsidy, he wants to move it around. They won't support subsidizing more companies like Solyndra.
That was not a subsidy.
That was a loan guarantee by the American people... we started guaranteeing energy projects (under Bush) for things that the market deemed too risky to go on their own. The program was working exactly how it was intended when we were stuck with the bill.
I think the real question is why is the American govt is guaranteeing loans for any risky private endeavor... why was this a good idea.
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warflea Title: Resident Mathematician
Posts: 44
Registered: 2001-8-22 12:57:18
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
The difference between a government loan and a government subsidy is razor thin. A loan implies the money will be repaid. Since the Solyndra people had already decided where that money should go, I'd say it wasn't really a loan.
And why not go further and ask, why is the government granting and guaranteeing loans at all?
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"If you want to build a ship, don't drum up people to collect wood and don't assign them tasks and work,
but rather teach them to long for the endless immensity of the sea."
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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Rhodoman  Posts: 1,397
Registered: 2001-6-14 21:02:19
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
jeune posted:
That was not a subsidy.
That was a loan guarantee by the American people
These two sentences contradict one another.
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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Ah-Schoo Title: Fuzzy Caterpillar of Friendliness
Posts: 3,034
Registered: 2000-8-11 09:05:29
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
Rho is right, free money and a loan are exactly the same thing, also asparagus.
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jeune Posts: 216
Registered: 2005-5-29 13:25:11
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
Rhodoman posted:
jeune posted:
That was not a subsidy.
That was a loan guarantee by the American people
These two sentences contradict one another.
Rho
They are 2 completely different things.
A subsidy distorts the market... a loan guarantee is only saying we will take on someones risk if it falls through.
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"Whenever the white man treats the Indian as they treat each other then we shall have no more wars. We shall be all alike — brothers of one father and mother, with one sky above us and one country around us and one government for all."
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Rhodoman Posts: 1,397
Registered: 2001-6-14 21:02:19
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
The only difference between a direct subsidy and a loan guarantee is the amount of risk of the government's money. Direct subsidy: the money is GONE, loan guarantee: the money is AT RISK of being gone.
They BOTH distort the market by making a company behave differently than they would if the government subsidy didn't exist.
Rho
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Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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Kanga_Roo  Posts: 439
Registered: 2002-2-26 12:58:17
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
Rhodoman posted:
Kanga_Roo posted:
I don't want to hear any more whining about subsidies from the bored cons
but I will
If it was Rho's goal to demonstrate that he does not believe in the free market system and supports subsides for industries making a profit without them then I suppose he "won"
Perhaps you missed that I was in favor of ending the subsidies.
Rho
I did not miss your conditional support of removing subsidies with the conditions for support being vague and ill defined.
It's like saying I'd support Christianity if Jesus Himself asked me to.
I am generally against subsidies. Best would be to get rid of them at once. Second best would be to get rid of the oldest one's first.
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Laws control the lesser man... Right conduct controls the greater one.
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Rhodoman Posts: 1,397
Registered: 2001-6-14 21:02:19
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
Yeah, I shouldn't have made the first post in this thread conditional. I'd be in favor of ending the subsidies no matter what.
However, since putting artificial barriers to domestic production in place is essentially causing the price of fuel to be higher than it would be otherwise (and I believe he is doing it on purpose, not for valid environmental reasons), I am against those, as well.
Rho
-----signature-----
Rho is correct. - Varece
Venit hiems quidquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur
Referring to illegal aliens as 'immigrants' is the same as referring to shoplifters as 'shoppers' - Dorvinion
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Banelord_FF Title: Cunstrukshen Werker
Posts: 321
Registered: 2002-1-3 14:33:41
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
Obama seeks halt to tax subsidies for oil industry |
Ptilk posted:
Um.....we use about 150 Billion gallons of gas in the US each year.
The subsidy is about 4 billion.
That equals less than 3/10ths of one penny per gallon in increased cost... if the increased cost from removing that subsidy was passed on 100% to the consumer.
I'm pretty sure no one would fecking notice.
Oh, and we are already producing more oil domestically than ever before and we are EXPORTING gas. I can't believe how often this is pointed out and no one ever pays any attention, so let me try one more god damn time.
We Are Exporting Gasoline. We Produce More Than We Can Use Now. There Is No Shortage Of Gasoline In The USA. Price Is Not Increasing Due to Demand. Demand Is Dropping.
Yes the US is producing more gas than it uses, but it is not producing more oil than it is using. The US is still has to import oil to meet its own needs and that is the issue here, not gasoline, which is an oil product.
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