Aye. I don't have trouble hitting things or holding threat.





I suppose that is for me this time. edit: "for now", that is. I suppose that will change once I hit the big ones amigos.

For the record, we didn't wipe. It was only big numbers coming through, my healer wasn't really that "great" either and I already figured certain values are not alright. I am aware of the elitist mentality when it comes to heroics, but frankly, this is just random PUG'ing. And I dearly hope Blizz at least keeps it that difficult (though we all know they'll nerf it to easymode soon enough).

I'm not from yesterday. I know about Maintankadin but there are still a few holes there; plus a variety of threads are still based on Wotlk comedy. The links about EJ and other one were a lot more informative.

Plus, not everybody has some guild backing your arse.

Whatever.
Would be nice if somebody could tell me if the first mob groups aka Ghouls in Shadowfang HC are just the toughest in the instance or if such heavy dmg is common on all mobs throuhgout ALL HC instances.

 

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I'm guessing you're at 10% parry, 11% dodge and 34% block? Or is your base miss chance in there already? Don't forget that you have to keep Holy Shield up. It procs when you use Shield of the Righteous. It's possible to keep it up indefinately and it increases the amount of dmg you block. And what do your trinkets do? Throngus's Finger for example increases your parry right? But it also procs 1500 dodge rating when you parry. You standing still out of combat avoidance may not be your in combat procing stuff avoidance.


Use your cool downs. You have them, they help, use them. Even it's just trash. I used to never use them on trash but now I used them everytime we get a big pull. With only 1minute and 3 minute cooldowns, no reason not to. WoGing and Holy Radiance are going to help as well. At the point in the game, the tank needs to suport the healer so the healer can keep the tank up! In my opinion anyway. Kind of seems backwards, and some of those abilities only do a "small" amount but used together and used properly they can make a difference.

 

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And you of course know everything! Gee, I thought he was taking time to figure out how to play better by asking? And from this thread it's ovious that he's not averse to learning. Sheesh.

 

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I learn new stuff all the time. But I also don't appreciate waiting 45-60 minutes in a dps queue only to get grouped with fails who were too lazy to learn the BASICS of their class prior to stepping into heroics. He claims to know about Maintankadin, and yet somehow managed to make it thru there, try tanking a heroic on a pally, and didn't know what avoidance to aim for or even how it works.


And Groove, you can play the elitist card if it makes you feel better. There is nothing elitist about going into a pug and expecting people to know the mere basics of the role they choose. The elitism would be the self-righteous arse who thinks he is entitled to run heroics simply because they are there and wastes four other peoples time because he is tanking with 55% avoidance.

 

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ugh, weird spacing issues on replying.

edit:
The important post first.




Stats are now AFTER fixing and researching
Parry 9.33%
Dodge 7.73%
Block 41.79%

Should be 63.85 (5% added in) avoidance, I guess.

There are still some holes I can fix for improvement.





Unfortunately, I don't have those trinkets (quite).
I have one that has 323 Stam and an emergency HP buffer.
The other one has 252 mastery rating and a 1260 parry rating CD.

I have the german version, but I will look up the trinkets you suggested. However, I don't know if it is smart to replace the ones I currently loaded - but do please correct me if I am wrong.


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~please note that after ages of sticking to my old rules since playing WoW release and ebyond, I finally bought the 280% mountstuff for those 4200 Gold or so. I normally invest only in gear but this time I decided to listen to the mouthy people (not referring to anybody here in this thread btw)
Big mistake this time, as I could have bought the gems all the gear I needed.


@AyaDeath ~fixed
Orale. Here we go again.

/sarcasm
"Elitist card"? What is this, Yugioh?

Alright, despite the trap card, I'll just active justification bait and anti-word twisting. I will play along. Feel free to read or just skip and twist words like you did above. I'll stick to quote bomb and wall of text.
/sarcasm offtastic.

And despite this text not stopping anyone from trolling, do please read this with a normal voice in your mind, too. Lately, people on vn are reading with this "other tone" making them think people are yelling or talking arrogantly at them.








Misinterpretation of words and tone from my post.
I am referring to the heightend "special forces" people immediately expect. Sure, you are free to have higher expectations. Just don't forget that you are in a PUG and PUGs are not always successful. I think you are well aware of that.

I notified I had bad gear and btw there is another side reason for that. I will answer that as PallyDog requested - further below here.

More details about the short group run: The healer was a slightly slowpoke and the heals weren't "that great" either. Nevertheless, I am humble enough to leave because I already noticed my gear was below. I somewhere saw this coming because of the Blizzard's ilvl setting and itemization.
Furthermore, BC/WotLK heroics are nothing compared to Cata as the itemization is way different. So even though we all may be oh-so-veterans, the addon reset button cares less about your previous experience.

In fact, if I pulled another group and we survived, you'd be moaning about the healer more than me.


I agree with PallyDog about "not using the short CDs". I did not take that much in account. I use them as my panic button, not as tanking since I don't get that much dmg in when tanking normal instances. So, the only way to learn is to do a short test run, ask for advice and learn. You stated your comment, so did I. Also, I stated above that I will be checking things twice - but so far, I must say again that EJ and the other link other than maintankadin was useful and insightful.

Thanks.





Look up and read.
You know I left that group beforehand and freely or?
So. If you were the dps waiting 45mins to a full hour for a tank and I would leave after testing my first time, a new and better tank would come. Plus, you wouldn't have died either.

Look to that tank, look to me, now the other tank, now BACK to me. Maybe you would have wiped and ragequit or kick that tank. Look up, would the tank be better than me? I don't know?
Look down. Look up - you're in a PUG, look down.

(sorry for the bad Old Spice trolling )

No seriously.
I am just assuming the troll tone throughout the wow community is based on today's "ilvl faker tries instancing and fails". I did not ilvl fake as in buy blue cloth and "yay heroix loot here I come". Again, I tested and then said "okay, now let's find the specific holes". More about fixing the holes further down.

If you can, I ask you to not wander off with these wild assumptions as depicted by your previous posts. I will try to do the same but the undertone of your posts is noticeable.

Plus, after readychecking and advising the healer about the first stairwell/line of sight, the druid still took several moments before starting the heal. I seriously doubt a healer is useful as a lateboomers. Note that I didn't put all the details about the group itself.

PUGs are not very talktive like they used to be either. I could care less about your server as everything regarding individual servers differs. At least for the variety of pugs I've been in, I've been asking simple questions or even just a "hi" and all you get is the rolling bush.





I know avoidance well enough. I just didn't know that the 102% rule is still active. Scroll and read the text I wrote about maintankadin. I was referring to the point about HC experiences. The first pages of the forum have tons of old wotlk stuff. I've used maintankadin so far only for the normal dungeon items. I probably missed the heroic FAQ after all, but frankly, there are still holes as stated in my previous post.


edit 2:

An experienced rl friend of mine helped me out with enchants etc. So the stamina is -> 130k hp; however with SDK. Yeah, I know. Need more and Priest Stam Buff won't save me...

 

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http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1020823291


Literally 20 seconds to find all you need to know as a paladin wanting to start tanking. This is even on the offiial forums no less. Since you obviously can't grasp Maintankadin or Elitist. You can type all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you're a lazy arse who needs his hand held and would rather subject a group to your fail avoidance.


p.s. There is absolutely nothing daunting about that pull in SFK. There are far worse trash pulls.

 

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Not everybody is an introverted researcher who disdains the very thought of pleasant learning conversation with others.

Maybe a message board isn't for you.

 

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Um...





UMMMMM...


The only valid point here is that mastery is good - and if you haven't figured that out you probably shouldn't be tanking.


He's not raiding - he's just starting heroics. Nobody just starting is going to be worrying about hit cap, expertise, or avoidance caps.


Do some of you even tank (or read or reply in context) ? I do actually tank and have cleared every instance and heroic several times over. I also teach my guildies the content and end up teaching pugs far too much as I pug my dpsers out (4 85's that are mostly maxed on heroic crap due to how fast and easy it is to max out in this joke of an expac).


There are 2 main concepts.


For one, playing any tank, even a paladin requires some "skill" or attention to detail despite what some super geniuses post here. You can faceroll and get mugged, or you can learn to use every ability you have. For a pali specifically that means use your dmg reducing abilities, use your group healing/mitigation tools, and spec to reduce dmg (go nuts with talents for your holy power heal, for ex) - while doing heroics. Divine shield got mugged but it's on a 1min CD - most heroic trash pulls will last a while. The new 50% shield is on a 3m CD - use it rather than die with CDs. Etc.


There is much more to being a good tank now than just holding threat on a bunch of mobs - surviving without your healer dumping their whole bar on every pull is ideal. Northrend facerollers who understand 1/4 of their abilities are getting destroyed. Revisit your spell book and talents to make sure you understand and use every applicable ability you have.


For two, grouping is more about group responsibility now, not any particular individual. A tank still generally leads, but everyone needs to know what mobs are doing, needs to avoid nasty high dmg stuff (on ground, or interrupting mobs), etc. Using CC even when you have a clue helps things go much more smoothly (you are going to kill the mobs anyways, reducing how much dmg they do to your group makes a big difference).


My 4th 85 is a healer which gives you much more of an appreciation of 2 things - most dps are dumber than posts and healing isn't broken - people are just too stupid to pay attention to their surroundings and either too lazy or too preoccupied with recount numbers to use their interrupts. One reason healers are suffering is because people don't avoid the avoidable dmg or interrupt obvious huge dmg things that can be interrupted. Healing, like tanking, is group-oriented now. I also love tanks and dps that MOVE OUT of AE targeted AE heals. Genius in action.


If your health is spiking all over the place on every pull and your healer is dumping a full bar every pull, then you (tank) and/or your group are doing something wrong.


Healers that don't suck learn really quick that they need to be super efficient and selective with spells and mana - but few good healers wanna deal with sloppy and/or stupid for a whole instance.


A smart group can do heroics even with mediocre gear but I personally like to be a bit beyond the minimum as a tank because the chances of that perfect group happening are small.

 

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Voqar, welcome to the small club of people who know what they are talking about in this thread!

 

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More like the small club of people who have way too much invested in what is suppose to be a hobby...holy crap. Not saiyng you're wrong, just that you need to go outside.

 

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