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Author Topic: MS //BUILD conference (previously known as PDC) [Locked]
Ravynmagi  4 stars
Title: Moderator
Posts: 1,098
Registered: 2001-12-23 17:10:17
Jeanysgimp posted:

What do you mean by Metro IE will not support plug ins, but if you use IE from the desktop plug ins work. Sorry, I don't know anything about Windows 8.

What exactly is the difference between Metro IE and the original IE?



Windows 8 uses Internet Explorer 10. When you launch it from the Metro styled Start screen you get the Metro looking touch friendly version of Internet Explorer without any plugins.

If you go to the Desktop and launch Internet Explorer from there, you can a normal looking mouse friendly Internet Explorer browser.

They both seem to run from the same iexplore.exe, but I assume it has two different modes it runs in. And if I open tabs up in the desktop mode, then go to the Metro mode, they are not visible there, so there seems to be quite a bit of separation between the two modes.

Besides the lack of plugins. Metro Internet Explorer runs in a complete full screen (like all Metro styled apps). If you right click a page is brings up the address bar and up top are small preview boxes of other pages you have open.
Sprawl-zero1eye-  4 stars
Title: IGN Vault Staff
Reziztance iz Futile

Posts: 1,001
Registered: 2002-6-28 03:39:29
Loaded it up in a VM. Used it for 10 minutes or so and saw I had 3 updates. Loaded them and now it won't boot, haha.

 

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Tai-Daishar_MT  2 stars
Title: Moderator
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Posts: 469
Registered: 2000-3-9 15:14:13
Hmm, might slap it into VirtualBox and give it a go.

Edit: Quick and simple getting it up and running in VB. Will test more tomorrow but first impression is man o man did the iPad scare the bejeezus out of MS

 

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Tai-Daishar_MT  2 stars
Title: Moderator
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Posts: 469
Registered: 2000-3-9 15:14:13
Ravynmagi posted:

* Windows 8 ARM

Windows 8 runs on ARM but I get the impression you can't use your x86 applications on that. And any Metro style apps made with native languages like C won't run there either. Apps will have to be in either Java, HTML, Silverlight, and he was naming some other language I think began with an X I wasn't familiar with. So the Windows 8 tablets running ARM processors are not going to have access... at least that is how I understood it... to a lot of native Windows x86 applications and even some Windows Metro style apps if they were developed in certain languages.

So you probably won't be playing World of Warcraft on a Tegra 3 processor with Windows 8. But I'm sure most of the apps suited for tablets will probably be done in languages that ARM will support. So may not be that big of a deal.



You are correct, x86 apps will not function on ARM. MS has tried to be very clear about this but I think there will still be many that miss this distinction.

Metro seems to me to be the MS response to iOS. While it can and does run on the desktop, it seems to shine on the tablet. It is designed as a touch first interface and requires apps to be either recompiled and run under an emulator on ARM or rewritten within the new WinRT API environment. Metro apps can be written using JavaScript, HTML/CSS, C/C++, C#, VB, XAML or .NET 4.5. DirectX will handle high poly apps (aka games).

Silverlight is also banished from Metro as the Metro version of IE10 does NOT support addins.

The other side of Win 8 is what is loosely being called Desktop mode. This is more akin to what you are used to today. x86 apps still function here and the desktop version of IE10 supports addins.

.NET has morphed a bit in this new system as well. While you can write apps for either Metro or Desktop using .NET, the Metro implementation uses a smaller subset of the overall library in order to protect the end-user from potential malicious apps.

So basically, an ARM tablet running Metro should provide for the same long battery lives seen on iPads today. The issue however is that you will have to wait for developers to give you anything to do outside of the stock apps provided by MS. This has been, imo, the main reason iPad has so easily dominated the tablet market. They have a clear advantage in number of available apps that Android and Windows have to contend with. I see these appealing to dedicated MS fans that want an iPad but refuse to give Apple any money. MS has previously proven extremely successful when entering the market late (OS, Browser to name a couple) but only time will tell if that works here.

I still get the feeling that MS is considering slapping it on an intel-based (think i5) tablet which will take us right back to where they started in the tablet market. A bigger unit that requires some combination of keyboard/mouse/stylus in order to get the benefit of all the x86 apps it runs all on a unit that might manage to live for 2 hours on a battery charge. That model did not work then and I don't see it working now.

That leaves us with the desktop/laptop markets. There are still, if my memory serves, 4 of these sold for every tablet. I don't think those numbers will change in the short term (next 2-3 years) so handing us a tablet-centric OS is a bold move. Yes, you can get back to the desktop but it has changed quite a bit. It looks the same visually on a cursory glance but it functions differently and will take getting used to. Personally, I am not a fan of the waste of screen real estate I have seen so far. I like my work/play environment to be very clean and neat with an emphasis on minimalism. What I am seeing now deviates from this but maybe further tweaking on my part will solve some/all of this. Then again, I was around when we went from command line to GUI's and I am getting that tingling sense that we may be about to go through a similar transition here from GUI to touch-centric.

Maybe I am just too old a dog to learn these new tricks, time will tell

 

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Ravynmagi  4 stars
Title: Moderator
Posts: 1,098
Registered: 2001-12-23 17:10:17
I don't really think of the new Start screen as a waste of space. It's just making use of space that wasn't used before.

When you go into you Start menu on Windows 7, you really don't need to see the desktop or running apps in order to select whatever it is you went to the Start menu for. So the Start menu being full screen might be disturbingly different, I don't think it really wastes space or makes the OS less productive.

I do hope they make the Start screen a little more laptop friendly though. Scrolling on a laptop touchpad is a bit awkward for many laptops (assuming it can at all). And Page Up/Down keys on often in weird places. It would be nice if I could also just click on an unused area of the Start screen and drag it to the left or right.


Dual monitors with Windows 8 is really nice. Start screen only shows up the monitor with the Start button on it and you can move that Start button real easy to either screen. You can run your Metro apps on one screen and the regular desktop on the other or desktops on both if you like.

Spanning wallpapers doesn't seem to work that well with two different sized monitors though. Get empty space on the larger monitor.
Tai-Daishar_MT  2 stars
Title: Moderator
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Posts: 469
Registered: 2000-3-9 15:14:13
Oh yeah, forgot to mention they included an implementation of Hyper-V. This is a much appreciated feature for sure!

 

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Sprawl-zero1eye-  4 stars
Title: IGN Vault Staff
Reziztance iz Futile

Posts: 1,001
Registered: 2002-6-28 03:39:29
The Hyper-V and Windows Defender are nice add-ons. While I don't miss the start menu per say, I am struggling to get around, and right now I have like 20 programs open with no way to close them except to force quit from the task manager. I ended up turning on desktop icons for "My Computer" and "Control Panel". I find myself making a lot more shortcuts on my taskbar as well.

I like the improved Task Manager, but the new RDC app sucks. Luckily you can still launch the old version by navigating down through the windows/system32 directory for the exe. I haven't figured out the rhyme or reason why sometimes the desktop IE launches when I click a link in an app, and sometime the Metro version launches. VN doesn't appear to work in the metro version either.

I struggled a bit to get vSphere 5 client installed, but compatibility mode saved the day. That always was a great addition (compatibility mode). The Metro UI will be nice for tablets but seems very cumbersome for the desktop, much like OS X's new Launchpad in Lion.

Overall, and yes I know it is a beta, this is Windows 7 RC2 imho.

 

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AC Frostfell, Clan Z - Lvl 239 Grief Dagger (Retired)
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Making iOS Apps these days at http://zsprawl.com/iOS
Ookane  1 star
Title: Moderator
Posts: 75
Registered: 2002-10-15 12:42:14
Actually it's not even a beta to be honest. The idea behind (and not explained as such) leaving programs open, is that the O/S manages them and after a while they tombstone and are saved to disk, freeing up memory again. The state is saved and any data open will be there still to access when you need it. I'm not sold on this personally, and am on the fence as to if I like removing at least the option for me to control what I want open and not.

 

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Ravynmagi  4 stars
Title: Moderator
Posts: 1,098
Registered: 2001-12-23 17:10:17
I had to kill that Metro Start screen on my laptop. Just way to awkward to use with a touchpad.

And good news, don't need to use regedit to kill the Start menu anymore if you don't like doing that. There is an tool to modify the Metro UI.
http://www.thewindowsclub.com/metro-ui-tweaker-windows-8-released
Sprawl-zero1eye-  4 stars
Title: IGN Vault Staff
Reziztance iz Futile

Posts: 1,001
Registered: 2002-6-28 03:39:29
Ookane posted:

The idea behind (and not explained as such) leaving programs open, is that the O/S manages them and after a while they tombstone and are saved to disk, freeing up memory again. The state is saved and any data open will be there still to access when you need it. I'm not sold on this personally, and am on the fence as to if I like removing at least the option for me to control what I want open and not.


I get it. I just don't like it for some reason. I'm not convinced it is as good as shutting down the app completely. However, I've been wrong before.

 

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Mirkwood MUD, OneEye IvoryFang, Lord of the VampireZ (Retired)
AC Frostfell, Clan Z - Lvl 239 Grief Dagger (Retired)
WoW Lightbringer Alliance, Z Guild - Lvl 85 Combat Rogue (Retired)
Making iOS Apps these days at http://zsprawl.com/iOS

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