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Topic:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... [Locked] |
Cawlin  Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
reesescups posted:
Cawlin posted:
There is a huge tendency to draw the lines between the haves and the have-nots and to draw the lines along racial lines, with the intention of course of taking the argument into the realm of how white people keep brown people down, going all the way back to education, but at a point, one has to take into account certain social paradigms that are internally created by the cultures involved. One cultural issue is disdain for education.
I think that cultural issue (disdain for education) is in fact cultural and not just divided along racial lines.
Unless you are about to tell me all the stupid dumb effers here on the outpost are all black...
There is a huge difference between being stupid and not realizing it and being stupid because you think it's a good thing to be.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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cabbyman  Posts: 441
Registered: 2003-1-6 07:48:53
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
Cawlin posted:
Crooq_Lionfang posted:
 
I'd guess most straight guys would prefer that over
any given day
LOL perhaps... but... your COLA raise will pay for
While your food stamps will only pay for
I thought he meant we liked putting it in chicks more than getting it in the can...
Glad you cleared it up. That would have been embarrassing!
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Sin_of_Onin Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
The biggest shift in education policy over the last 30 years is mainstreaming but still labeling everyone 50 different ways(only in negatives) and tying these labels to expectations and into funding.
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"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
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Sin_of_Onin Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
Cawlin posted:
There is a huge tendency to draw the lines between the haves and the have-nots and to draw the lines along racial lines, with the intention of course of taking the argument into the realm of how white people keep brown people down, going all the way back to education, but at a point, one has to take into account certain social paradigms that are internally created by the cultures involved. One cultural issue is disdain for education.
-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
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ZigmundZag Title: Grammar Nazi
Posts: 1,211
Registered: 2002-3-25 23:03:00
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
Cawlin posted:
Honestly, I wonder about the metrics we're even using to try to define the problem.
In truth we have only one metric: cost. We can track that one pretty well, whether or not we interpret it appropriately is another matter, but in the end we actually have a fair record of the direct costs of the American public education system.
As for the rest - I wonder about the metrics that speak to the performance of American students - I wonder about their applicability and correctness.
Any metric derived from NCLB is a sham and should be written off entirely. NCLB is a disaster on a scale so large that it has set education back more than 2 years for every year it's been in place.
NCLB is useful if only that it got educators to start thinking in terms of metrics and data collection. Prior to that, it was mostly about how good the teachers and the principals thought they were doing. We're actually seeing scenarios now where teachers and administrators review standardized report results as a group and adjust their instruction appropriately. Teachers who underperform can be paired up with other teachers who did well to get some pointers on how to improve their curriculum. Granted, it takes a good principal to pull this off so that the teachers don't feel threatened, but it is happening in some schools.
I do agree about needing to rebuild from the ground up, though. These schools are the exception rather than the rule.
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Cawlin Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
ZigmundZag posted:
Cawlin posted:
Honestly, I wonder about the metrics we're even using to try to define the problem.
In truth we have only one metric: cost. We can track that one pretty well, whether or not we interpret it appropriately is another matter, but in the end we actually have a fair record of the direct costs of the American public education system.
As for the rest - I wonder about the metrics that speak to the performance of American students - I wonder about their applicability and correctness.
Any metric derived from NCLB is a sham and should be written off entirely. NCLB is a disaster on a scale so large that it has set education back more than 2 years for every year it's been in place.
NCLB is useful if only that it got educators to start thinking in terms of metrics and data collection. Prior to that, it was mostly about how good the teachers and the principals thought they were doing. We're actually seeing scenarios now where teachers and administrators review standardized report results as a group and adjust their instruction appropriately. Teachers who underperform can be paired up with other teachers who did well to get some pointers on how to improve their curriculum. Granted, it takes a good principal to pull this off so that the teachers don't feel threatened, but it is happening in some schools.
I do agree about needing to rebuild from the ground up, though. These schools are the exception rather than the rule.
Yeah but all we seem to be doing is teaching them how to teach the test better...
Dude, even in my SAT preparatory classes we still had actual stuff that was just general curriculum - less than one class period a week was devoted to SAT prep in the form of practice exercises for the SAT. Note above that I stated my nephew spends one class period PER DAY in instruction to take this standard NCLB testing... wtf?
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
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We have a ton of data points out there. As Onin pointed out, some schools who have mostly marginal kids with uninterested parents do much better at graduating kids with basic literacy and math skills than others. It should be possible to look at the schools that do better and figure out what makes them do better and try to replicate that at the schools that do worse. I am happy to admit I don't know exactly what that would entail in practice but there are certainly enough examples there for policy makers to look and figure it out.
Things like ending union contracts are not going to happen and are just another way to push off blame on someone and therefore ignore the problem.
Standardized testing linked to school funding is a terrible way to go about things. NCLB is sorta the logical conclusion of the 30 year process of demanding schools produce equal outputs despite getting radically unequal inputs.
edit: Also, back on the subject of funding. Overall funding levels are not a problem. But the distribution often is. The American public school funding system tends to give more money to districts with rich parents and less money to districts with poor parents. This is assinine. We are funneling more of our educational dollars to districts that don't need it and less to districts that really do need extra funding. Things have improved over the last 20 years but it is spotty and there are still plenty of states where the distribution is vastly unequal.
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reesescups Title: //Captain America
Posts: 2,537
Registered: 2003-5-26 14:45:53
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
ZigmundZag posted:
NCLB is useful if only that it got educators to start thinking in terms of metrics and data collection. Prior to that, it was mostly about how good the teachers and the principals thought they were doing. We're actually seeing scenarios now where teachers and administrators review standardized report results as a group and adjust their instruction appropriately. Teachers who underperform can be paired up with other teachers who did well to get some pointers on how to improve their curriculum. Granted, it takes a good principal to pull this off so that the teachers don't feel threatened, but it is happening in some schools.
I do agree about needing to rebuild from the ground up, though. These schools are the exception rather than the rule.
Instead of measuring standardized tests, why not look at the success of students after school? You know, how they do in the real world with the stuff that was taught to them to prepare them for the real world?
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Cawlin Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
Yukishiro1 posted:
edit: Also, back on the subject of funding. Overall funding levels are not a problem. But the distribution often is. The American public school funding system tends to give more money to districts with rich parents and less money to districts with poor parents. This is assinine. We are funneling more of our educational dollars to districts that don't need it and less to districts that really do need extra funding. Things have improved over the last 20 years but it is spotty and there are still plenty of states where the distribution is vastly unequal.
By what mechanisms are these funding discrepancies occurring? Isn't it based on population? Are the districts gerrymandered since school taxes are based on property value or something?
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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Yukishiro1 Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:01am
Subject:
90% of voters think public school funding is down in this country... |
Cawlin posted:
Yukishiro1 posted:
edit: Also, back on the subject of funding. Overall funding levels are not a problem. But the distribution often is. The American public school funding system tends to give more money to districts with rich parents and less money to districts with poor parents. This is assinine. We are funneling more of our educational dollars to districts that don't need it and less to districts that really do need extra funding. Things have improved over the last 20 years but it is spotty and there are still plenty of states where the distribution is vastly unequal.
By what mechanisms are these funding discrepancies occurring? I thought it was based on population? Are the districts gerrymandered since school taxes are based on property value or something?
Traditional American public school funding has come mostly from local school district property taxes. The results are obvious and entirely inequitable but the incentives are also obvious to perpetuate the system.
In some states - like California - there have been serious efforts to remedy the issue, and funding has become more equal, although still not fully equal.
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