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Author Topic: Economic Inequality and Volatility [Locked]
Rosaria  2 stars
Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
Posts: 477
Registered: 2003-8-22 10:07:30
Sin_of_Onin posted:

Honestly that view makes little to no sense to me. I am not even sure you are talking about production or consumption. There seem to be two worlds, government and the financial services world. IMO they are really both side shows to the two major gears of the economy which are consumption and production.


Capital markets are meant to help serve the expansion of production and facilitate consumption. There has been major dysfunction in the capital markets in the US which includes massive mistakes made by private interests and interference by the US government and other foreign parties.


The changes that are really great are changes in productivity. The growth of productivity of the other nations, specifically China, has drastically increased global production. In the US production has also increased in the form of increases in technology. These changes in production have pushed down the labor market and helped the capital markets.


In terms of just the US this has meant decades of growing economic inequality which feeds into government as I previously mentioned. Government is also not the horrible thing some people think it is. The blanket statement that government run means less efficient is clearly false when you look at health care.

Your assessment is probably fair but that's how I organize my view of our economy. I'm well aware of increasing reliance on government even prior to the recession. You can fashion legislation to address economic inequality. Is that what you are proposing?

 

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Sin_of_Onin  4 stars
Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
Rosaria posted:

Your assessment is probably fair but that's how I organize my view of our economy. I'm well aware of increasing reliance on government even prior to the recession. You can fashion legislation to address economic inequality. Is that what you are proposing?



I am saying that if you want to address dependence on government then you also want to address income inequality.


In US politics those most annoyed that people are dependent on government tend to be the ones most opposed to even talking about addressing income inequality.

 

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Rosaria  2 stars
Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
Posts: 477
Registered: 2003-8-22 10:07:30
Sin_of_Onin posted:

Rosaria posted:

Your assessment is probably fair but that's how I organize my view of our economy. I'm well aware of increasing reliance on government even prior to the recession. You can fashion legislation to address economic inequality. Is that what you are proposing?



I am saying that if you want to address dependence on government then you also want to address income inequality.


In US politics those most annoyed that people are dependent on government tend to be the ones most opposed to even talking about addressing income inequality.

What are you specifically proposing though? How do you think this should be addressed? We all know it exists. There are a squillion theories as to why it exists and why its perpetuated. What're your thoughts on correcting it?

 

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"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
theredkay1  3 stars
Posts: 611
Registered: 2008-5-16 10:37:09
I see two economies:

one with low barriers to entry


one with high barriers to entry (medical, legal, finance to name the big ones)


We have used trade policy and licensing policy to dramatically lower the barriers on some jobs.


We have used trade policy and licensing policy to keep the barriers very high in other jobs.


That second group makes alot of money b/c the barriers allow it.


Im not sure how this plays into volatility but it doesnt seem impossible for there to be a connection. Maybe this setup encourages debt wich drives volatility....debt demand as the low wage economy tries to catch up to the high wage economy...and it encourages debt supply as savers dont know what to do with their massive piles of money and seek ever more exotic ways to get an extra fraction of a percent.
Sin_of_Onin  4 stars
Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
I don’t think everyone realizes it is a problem that has to be addressed. This is rather obvious when you actually look at pretty much every single republican candidate pushing very hard for supply side economics that mostly benefit the rich.


I think both parties are united in rhetoric concerning China and their manipulation of our currency. This is priority number one.


Outside of that I think there are a lot of different ways to go but I would start with comprehensive tax reform that makes our corporate tax structure more competitive before credits and less dependent on them period. Reform will also include equalizing the tax rate on capital gains for those with income over $500K MFJ. I would also like to see the tax code fading out the marginal rate structure for those making over $1M MFJ and replacing it with a flat rate.

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Sin_of_Onin  4 stars
Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
theredkay1 posted:

I see two economies:

one with low barriers to entry


one with high barriers to entry (medical, legal, finance to name the big ones)


We have used trade policy and licensing policy to dramatically lower the barriers on some jobs.


We have used trade policy and licensing policy to keep the barriers very high in other jobs.


That second group makes alot of money b/c the barriers allow it.


Im not sure how this plays into volatility but it doesnt seem impossible for there to be a connection. Maybe this setup encourages debt wich drives volatility....debt demand as the low wage economy tries to catch up to the high wage economy...and it encourages debt supply as savers dont know what to do with their massive piles of money and seek ever more exotic ways to get an extra fraction of a percent.



The income of the top 1% will always be more volatile. It is not that their income is more or less volatile than before (maybe it is). It is that their income accounts for more of all income than before. It is that government depends on taxing this income more than before. It is that producers depend on these people consuming more.

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
Rosaria  2 stars
Title: They call me Mellow Yellow, quite rightly.
Posts: 477
Registered: 2003-8-22 10:07:30
Sin_of_Onin posted:

I don’t think everyone realizes it is a problem that has to be addressed. This is rather obvious when you actually look at pretty much every single republican candidate pushing very hard for supply side economics that mostly benefit the rich.


I think both parties are united in rhetoric concerning China and their manipulation of our currency. This is priority number one.


Outside of that I think there are a lot of different ways to go but I would start with comprehensive tax reform that makes our corporate tax structure more competitive before credits and less dependent on them period. Reform will also include equalizing the tax rate on capital gains for those with income over $500K MFJ. I would also like to see the tax code fading out the marginal rate structure for those making over $1M MFJ and replacing it with a flat rate.

I won't be voting for Obama nor the Republican candidate whoever that is. I haven't watched any of the Republican debates, Obama I've watched for three years. It will be closer to four by the time I vote. I don't expect him nor his administration to behave any differently than they have been throughout the next year.


There seems to be a lot of anger with China [see front page of this board] but I don't think anything is going to be different despite the rhetoric. China will very slowly allow the relative value of their money to rise, as they see fit. On their part I think they will push harder and harder for a basket of currencies to replace the USD and continue to trade with other countries using another currency or multiple currencies.


No question that our corporate tax structure is more of a hinderance than a help. I also believe the entire credit system eventually needs to be abolished as well as all 'temporary' measures being used to address business in this country. I'm also hoping that people at least take a look at how small business owners are taxed. If you truly believe that small businesses are the economic engine of the country in terms of jobs, their entire tax structure needs a second and maybe third look. The flat rate concept is intriguing. Where are you on VATs?

 

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"Them Bollinger Bands on the DJIA are starting to look like columns of projectile vomit." ~ Red Pill
Sin_of_Onin  4 stars
Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
Rosaria posted:

There seems to be a lot of anger with China [see front page of this board] but I don't think anything is going to be different despite the rhetoric. China will very slowly allow the relative value of their money to rise, as they see fit. On their part I think they will push harder and harder for a basket of currencies to replace the USD and continue to trade with other countries using another currency or multiple currencies.


No question that our corporate tax structure is more of a hinderance than a help. I also believe the entire credit system eventually needs to be abolished as well as all 'temporary' measures being used to address business in this country. I'm also hoping that people at least take a look at how small business owners are taxed. If you truly believe that small businesses are the economic engine of the country in terms of jobs, their entire tax structure needs a second and maybe third look. The flat rate concept is intriguing. Where are you on VATs?



The Chinese are purposefully manipulating the USD. This is not even remotely close to a nation keeping a basket of foreign currencies to trade with. The two are not even remotely in the same ball park. I have no idea how you can string those two thoughts together.


As for the corporate tax structure, I want credits and their ilk to go away but they won't. I think there is a good shot at rebasing and lowering rates though.


I don't think small businesses are the economic engine of the country.


A flat tax doesn't help small business and if anything it hurts them. The VAT is better but it is still a consumption tax that can be very regressive. It is a good alternative to other regressive taxes but is no replacement for the income tax.

 

-----signature-----
"Okay... I'm with you fellas" --Delmar
F is for Fake-believe
"We apologise for the inconvenience" --God
"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem"--Reg
Run, Forrest! Run!
dae_trist  4 stars
Posts: 1,049
Registered: 2003-6-5 13:32:39
The sheer hypocrisy of America calling anyone a currency manipulator is gold. And it's true Rosaria, many of the posters here are simply using my interweb handle as a convenient excuse to express their racist sentiments towards China and "Asians" as a whole. They're far, far too dumb to see the irony.

 

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dae_trist  4 stars
Posts: 1,049
Registered: 2003-6-5 13:32:39
Sin_of_Onin posted:

The Chinese are purposefully manipulating the USD.



The US sells bonds. China buys bonds. That's not manipulation. Funny, America wanted everyone to deal in and buy dollars, but now that it's time to look for a scapegoat they moan like reese's mom about being ripped off.

 

-----signature-----
"templars heal for like 300-400 a heal"
"wardens do waht 40 dps at most? friars do 600 dps"
"well maybe the aoe taunt that bains had..."
"Eck theurg pets are unstunnable..." -- bryldan

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