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Author Topic: No MMO does casters like DAOC [Locked]
bstulic  3 stars
Posts: 761
Registered: 2002-7-26 04:55:00
Cawlin posted:

I hate Arena PvP in WoW too. The closest thing to "World PvP" in WoW is the Alterac Valley battleground which back in the early days of WoW could (and did) quite literally go on for days at a time with 40 vs. 40 people and all the tower humping you could ever want.

I've noted in this thread already that WoW's PvP concept is terrible, but its mechanics are excellent. DAOC's RvR concept was the best EVER in an MMO, but it's mechanics were fkn terrible.



With some exceptions like bainshees and animists (before number of shrooms and CAE LOS issues were settled)
DAOC pvp scaled really well from 1vs1 to 400vs400...was same true for WOW?

 

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Yukishiro1  4 stars
Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
Daoc is awful 1v1. The mechanics are set up to only really work when you've got groups. There's a reason 8v8 ended up being the gold standard.


Wow's mechanics are too complicated to work well in big group vs group fights. Once you get beyond about 5v5 in wow there is too much stuff going on for anyone to ever be able to keep track of it and react intelligently.
Cawlin  4 stars
Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
bstulic posted:

Cawlin posted:

I hate Arena PvP in WoW too. The closest thing to "World PvP" in WoW is the Alterac Valley battleground which back in the early days of WoW could (and did) quite literally go on for days at a time with 40 vs. 40 people and all the tower humping you could ever want.

I've noted in this thread already that WoW's PvP concept is terrible, but its mechanics are excellent. DAOC's RvR concept was the best EVER in an MMO, but it's mechanics were fkn terrible.



With some exceptions like bainshees and animists (before number of shrooms and CAE LOS issues were settled)
DAOC pvp scaled really well from 1vs1 to 400vs400...was same true for WOW?



When you say "scaled really well" do you mean the game mechanics or the actual game performance?

If you're talking about performance, as with a lot of games, much depended on how good the client hardware was. I never was in a DAOC RvR battle with more than 200 people that moved any better than about 5 frames per second (and I had good hardware at that point).

As for "mechanics" scaling in WoW like that, I can't really say because there hasn't been PvP on that scale since the first year that WoW was live and back then they would get so many people into the zones that they would crash it out - like the way Hibs would crash relic raids by spamming shrooms...

 

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Cawlin  4 stars
Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
Yukishiro1 posted:

Daoc is awful 1v1. The mechanics are set up to only really work when you've got groups. There's a reason 8v8 ended up being the gold standard.

Wow's mechanics are too complicated to work well in big group vs group fights. Once you get beyond about 5v5 in wow there is too much stuff going on for anyone to ever be able to keep track of it and react intelligently.



Yeah but it was always that way in DAOC too. I would put the number at more than 15 vs. 15 though in WoW. The only time when DAOC handled huge battles with so-called "intelligent" reactions was when one group mezzed 50 or so people all running stuck to one speed class or MOC-PBAOE bombed a pile of people at a keep door or something.

 

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AzureTyger  2 stars
Title: Awesome
Posts: 462
Registered: 2002-4-1 15:49:04
Yukishiro1 posted:

Wow's mechanics are too complicated to work well in big group vs group fights. Once you get beyond about 5v5 in wow there is too much stuff going on for anyone to ever be able to keep track of it and react intelligently.



That doesn't say anything good about WoW.

 

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Sin_of_Onin  4 stars
Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
The worst part of both games is the fact that they are competitive but rely heavily on progression.

 

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4f5c30f4e4b04dc907
Posts: 1
Registered:
fact is youre all beating around the bush the entire time lol, an imho no game did casters like daoc, while wow was fun to play with at first bc it was relaxing to finally not get interupted in one hit by something, it slowly became boringly easy, itd be a kite kite kite kite and now hes no where near me again and i can get one more spell off before he hit me again, it become stupidly easy in wow, with daoc was alot funner, the game just fit well with it, i had adreline rushes with daoc, not with wow, i was fine in wow, i never had a worry that i was a glass cannon was more like being a 5 inch thick fiberglass cannon instead of the glass used in your house (idk technical term) that is made up to be a giant laser supercannon, it actually created balance within itself, its like rock paper scissors, casters kill tanks, stealthers kill casters, and tanks kill stealthers, but in wow it was more who could max out their autoattack....that played a bigger role imo than button mashing....was no autoattack in daoc, so i mean while wow creates a nice atmosphere for a casters, it doesnt do casters right....thats why theyre called glass cannons, and if you TRUELY TRUELY TRUELY!! think that putting together the best combo for buttons to press overcomes raw talent by positioning yourself you are sadly mistaken....the wowers have continuely repeated the whole button pressing and timing thing of it, thats complete crap.....thats not skill at all.....compare it to martial arts of some sort, i myself did wrestling, it was never about what moves i knew in wrestling, it was good to know my moves it was more of positioning myself (the skill part which you can improve by becoming faster, stronger, and more nimble) to put them into the moves i needed to put them into, i went in with a small arsenal and positioned myself to dominate the other wrestler....and this is said in all other forms of martial arts, less of knowing your moves (button mashing) and more of positioning yourself (kiting strafting etc etc etc) while and while yes the wow form of combat is more indepth because there is soooo much more abilities to use, and while yes it takes skills to mash all of those buttons they have nifty macros which helped with mashing and it becomes quite difficult, but you can counter all the stupid button mashing with good kiting which imo makes you a better player, i was able to with my rogue use about 5 abilities but able to kite the shit out of everyone that i was able to dominate most players, so yea....i think that the kiting over rules the timing of your buttons and "predicting what the other player is gonna do" when in all reality you know what each class is gonna do, if youre any good you should know what the other classes abilities do and everything, you should be able to pick up theyre class and dominate them....and if you want videos of skill look up swoopkins the minst, an amazing minst in over half of the fights taking on 3+ players and winning easily, and theres alot of that button mashing you enjoy....so yea, think in the long run it does take more skill to play daoc, and i know youre going ti disagree out your butt, but when it comes down to it, truely think, is it harder to "guess" what the other persons gonna do and "counter it" or position yourself to take advantage over the other player....but back on subject casting in daoc was always so much more fun, and 1v1 was never boring in daoc....just wasing CONSTANT button mashing.....and fights didnt last 15 minutes, and should also check out dim vamps those suckers were nasty little things, they took some skill to play too, no claw or hot spamming...

heres swoopkins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVtbuWWv-9A

and couldnt find anything on a dim vamp guess they were too rare for ppl to post vids

but not gonna deny it takes some skill to play wow, its not pure smashing of your face into the keyboard but sorry learning how others gotta play a class and how youre gonna play youre class isnt hard.....and its not hard to figure out what a caster is about to cast either and knowing when to interupt.....positioning yourself while clicking your buttons is harder...
Ashmaele  4 stars
Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts: 1,809
Registered: 2002-1-15 08:30:50
thread confirmed HIV positive

 

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bstulic  3 stars
Posts: 761
Registered: 2002-7-26 04:55:00
OMG, almost half a year since that thread...are we in some
kind of time warp, or time just pass faster as you grow older

 

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__Bonk__  5 stars
Posts: 5,122
Registered: 2009-7-25 03:04:52

 

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