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Author Topic: The Dems are trying to recall the Michigan Governor [Locked]
theredkay1  3 stars
Posts: 611
Registered: 2008-5-16 10:37:09
Sansfear posted:

When employees negotiate pay with their managers, the manager represents the best interests of the business. If they make a bad decision, not only will they face termination but they will have put their company in a disadvantaged competitive position and potentially force their own company out of business.

Government has no competition to put them out of business for bad labor decisions and they can simply raise taxes/fees/fines in order to cover the costs of the new contract. Government managers do not have to have the best interest of the government at mind when they negotiate and they do not face the same threat of termination if they screw up. The result is an extremely one-sided negotiation since management doesn't have the same incentive to hold the financial line against the demands of the employees.

b) I could have worded better, but the gist is the same as before. They aren't at risk of losing their job (either through incompetence in negotiations or through the company going out of business) if they give away the farm to the union.



Your solution doesnt fix any of this. It doesnt even address the problems you identify.

You have identified a potential problem, managers may overpay their workers. Your solution is to interfere with workers ability to freely contract and negotiate while avoiding the potential problem of managers mismanaging government staffs.

Again, you appear to have not thought through any of this.

The problems that you identify also manifest themselves with regards to other government contracts, that being private companies that supply goods and services to the government. Are you calling for legal action that stops private business from freely contracting and negotiating if they have interactions with the government? If you are concerned with the issues you raise, you should be calling for that as well.

But you dont seem to actually be concerned with your issue.
theredkay1  3 stars
Posts: 611
Registered: 2008-5-16 10:37:09
-Espiritu- posted:

[
States are broke. Crooked politicians and over-zealous public unions put us in this position. The teacher’s unions in this country are the biggest target.



States are broke due to the lowest tax burden in recent history + rising health care costs + the biggest economic collapse in 70 years.

You are ignoring the 3 causes of state budget problems. You are a moron.
Groucho48  3 stars
Posts: 821
Registered: 2003-10-22 03:00:14
So, let's look at the last decade.

For much of it, pension funds were getting a pretty good return on investment, so, government entities cut back their funding and spent the money on other stuff. Then, returns tanked and government entities said...OMG! Our pensions don't have enough in them to pay pensions over the next 75 years unless we make up the amounts we didn't put in, therefore, we have to eviscerate them.

Oh, and, in the meantime, we are going to cut corporate taxes and to cover the huge deficits, we are going to lay off public employees.

Yeah, the unions have the government wrapped around their fingers.

 

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“Science is like sex: sometimes something useful comes out, but that is not the reason we are doing it.” – Richard Feynman
Yukishiro1  4 stars
Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
To be fair, pension plans were always ridiculously optimistic. Most American local governments budget based on a 7-8% yearly return. That is simply absurd. 5% is far more realistic, and results in needing to put in about twice as much money over 30 years to make the same returns.

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