Recalls seldom work.

If they do...then they are working as planned. If they don't....they are working as planned.

See no reason to get upset about it.

A and B in your example also apply to the private sector (granted, I realize that you would like to end all collective bargaining, but the "distinctions" you noted are not really distinctions at all.

As for C, can you quantify this or give examples of how they have "benefitted politically?" I'm not saying you're wrong, I just do not have enough evidence to know that you are right at this point.

 

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Wow, takedown.

 

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Who is being forced? How are the being forced? What is the enforcement mechanism?


I think this is another term that will try to turn the meaning of 'forced' on its head.

If people dont like the healthcare or retirement benefits offered by the municipality/school district, they should avoid going to work for them.





What about when the union doesn't provide a benefit? What about when the union refuses to poll its members on key decisions? What about when the union refuses to allow lazy and ineffective members to be fired, and instead allows hard working overachievers to get fired just because they have less seniority. What about a teachers union that sets up their own health insurance company, and then refuses to negotiate contracts with schools that don't include coverage from their own health insurance company? What about when that teacher's union run health insurance company charges 30-40% more than competitors, and then funnels that profit back into their political organization which acts independently of any input from members?


It truly was the perfect scam. I have to give them credit. If they hadn't gone too far and nearly bankrupted the state, a guy like Scott Walker never would have won the Governor's seat.





This law allows teachers to choose whether they give a portion of their hard earned salary to an organization that may or may not represent them as employees, and only represents them politically if they are progressive Democrats. When this law was passed we were told that the teacher’s unions wouldn’t even notice because their members would write the check each month. It took less than six months for unions to start sending out goons to try and prevent the mass exodus. If the union truly represented its membership, why would so many people leave? Your point relies on the idea that the union only acts as a positive to the membership, and that the membership would not opt to contract directly with the employer if given a choice. Fact is the union prevents any non-union people from getting employment as part of their bargaining.





You’re a f***ing moron. This is not about contracts between workers and their employers; this is about contracts between workers and the government itself. Private unions were not included in any of these changes, just the public unions. The employer in this scenario is the taxpayer, and for thirty years we’ve had absolutely no say in these negotiations. We do now.


States are broke. Crooked politicians and over-zealous public unions put us in this position. The teacher’s unions in this country are the biggest target. For years they argued that their power was needed because “it’s for the children”. They don’t even pretend any more. In Wisconsin they abandoned their kids, and classrooms, to protest for their own pocketbooks. This is of course their only true motivation.


Note: not all teachers, some went to their classrooms

Note: mostly just terrible teachers went to the protests, the ones who are just collecting a pay check any way

 

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You can't throw a) out at all.

When employees negotiate pay with their managers, the manager represents the best interests of the business. If they make a bad decision, not only will they face termination but they will have put their company in a disadvantaged competitive position and potentially force their own company out of business.

Government has no competition to put them out of business for bad labor decisions and they can simply raise taxes/fees/fines in order to cover the costs of the new contract. Government managers do not have to have the best interest of the government at mind when they negotiate and they do not face the same threat of termination if they screw up. The result is an extremely one-sided negotiation since management doesn't have the same incentive to hold the financial line against the demands of the employees.

b) I could have worded better, but the gist is the same as before. They aren't at risk of losing their job (either through incompetence in negotiations or through the company going out of business) if they give away the farm to the union.

c) Unions provide an unduly emphasized support of political campaigns due to their organization and financing. 10K union members will have more political clout than 50K of the voting public (though this is as much the voting public's fault as anyone's). The current situation in Michigan is a great example as the recall efforts are being driven by a very small percentage of the voting public.

This is especially true for government unions who have an even larger incentive to keep someone in office who has just given them a great deal. And in the elective process, they can do just that by voting en masse (and organizing to get others to vote for their candidate) to get them reelected. In private companies, the union members don't elect the managers.

Nothing shows how true a) is than when the Milwaukee Area Technical College union was able to renogiate their new contract on the eve of the Scott Walker changes to collective bargaining. Why would the government employees, who represent the taxpayers, renew a contract the night before they would be able to renew a contract at significant savings to the taxpayers?


That question was answered by how the teachers themselves, and the board members of MATC hugged and clutched each other after the vote. Two of the board members are actually teachers themselves in different districts. This reciprocity worked well... up until the point they bankrupted the state.

 

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Lots of envy itt

 

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There's an old expression about what happens when you let the fox guard the henhouse...

 

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You really have no idea what you're talking about.

 

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