jhonto posted:

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I agree these are the two biggest factors, although I would argue the current difficulty in templating is a third obstacle.

[colorurple] Trouble with tempating is a symptom of a bigger problem, Min/Max. If Min/Max were fixed then tempating would be much easier. [/color]


. . . .The difference between being templated and not templated are so extreme, its practically mandatory.


[colorurple] Templating should be practically mandatory but if the Min/Max were not as much of a problem then players who had great templates would not have such a huge advantage over players who only had mediocre templates. Also, if Min/Max were not as much of a problem then players would be able to fill templates with a larger variety of gear, making the filling of a template much easer and less expensive.


The underlying problem is Min/Max. Fixing Min/Max would solve many game problems, including templating.[/color]


So IMHO, we have a still great game, hampered by the lack of a PvE game to speak of (almost no one is interested in PvE grouping these days except in TDs where most people want to be PLed anyways), tremendous barriers to participating in the end game, . . .

[colorurple] This game has huge amounts of unused/underutilized PvE. The entire original game world maps, all of SI is a huge world, TOA is a huge PvE area, Catacombs, etc.


The game needed coordinated expansions. With each expansion more of the old PvE areas were made obsolete so that going to the old areas was mostly for sightseeing (a min of "ahhhhhh" and then back to real leveling grind. With Catacombs came the stupidity of TDs and many players never even enter any PvE areas other than TDs.


Along with the eclectic and hodgepodge expansions are other problems. Early on in the game, even before SI, I often saw groups disband when some noob would get the group killed a few times. It did not take many deaths for the members of a group to lose an entire days experience. Players often found it safer to level only with friends, only with known skillful players or solo. The root of this problem, which lead to many grouping challenges in the game, was the stupid, self-destructive, moronic death experience penalty.


Yes the game needs a death penalty but not one that has groups quickly turn a new player, who is in need of help and instruction, into a pariah. The game needs penalties but not penalties that promote cliquish and snobbish behavior. (sorry I sometimes get into rants when I write about Mythic stupidity).


Mythic has never had much of a clue. Even today they do not seem to grasp that which they need to have a firm handle of. [/color]


and a requirement that means a massive amount of grinding to be on an even vaguely even field. If you aren't templated, your screwed. If you aren't high RR, you are likewise also screwed but can eventually get to the point where its less of a barrier.

[colorurple] This is more of the Min/Max challange.[/color]


The ultimate problem is that Mythic - and they are hardly alone in this - listened to the hardcore PvPers and changed the game accordingly.

[colorurple] Sorry but Mythic almost never listened to the players. They never cared what players wanted. If they ever pretended to listen to players, it was pretend and only to hasten their own agenda.


Just because we can find some post somewhere that preceded every stupid thing that Mythic implemented, it does not mean Mythic ever even saw the post.


What we do know is Mythic cared so little about the TL reports (reports that were supposed to be the best and highest priority ideas for improvements that players could compile) that Mythic department heads had to be forced to listen to someone read the reports to them or the reports would never even be read or responded to. Once Mythic people were forced to listen to the reports, Mythic’s responses were trite, condescending, rude, often indicated that Mythic had no clue or did not even play the game, etc. . . .


Sorry but all evidence points to Mythic only rarely listening to player and the evidence points to things being totally coincidental when a change to the game happened to follow some players stupid request on the boards.


Yes there were a few times when Mythic did listen, but not often. Mostly Mythic does not care much about the players. I am sure they think they care but when someone truly cares they do not act the way that Mythic acts. [/color]


. . . . The players who are solely focused on PvP may scream the most and be the most active in providing feedback . . .

[colorurple] As there is ample evidence that Mythic does not really listen to what players want, the actual answer is, Mythic people who have the most control of the direction of the game are themselves PvP/RvR centric and because of this most changes to the game are PvP/RvR centric and PvE damaging. Add to the above a bit of self-destructive selfishness and it is no wonder the PvE part of DAoC has been mostly destroyed. [/color]

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Semi4 posted:

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[colorurple] As there is ample evidence that Mythic does not really listen to what players want, the actual answer is, Mythic people who have the most control of the direction of the game are themselves PvP/RvR centric and because of this most changes to the game are PvP/RvR centric and PvE damaging. Add to the above a bit of self-destructive selfishness and it is no wonder the PvE part of DAoC has been mostly destroyed. [/color]

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Istvanarcher10 posted:

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What really needs to be implemented is a set of battle grounds modeled after the IROC races. Where every driver, drives the same car. Now it's about driver skill, not mechanical cheats.

So old style port over to a bg. Medallion vendor stands next to a storage facility for your attire. You port over and are handed out 89% quality gear, with no bonuses. Now it's about your character's race, stats, class, spec, and most importantly your uber l33t skilzorz. It would be a true test of who's performance is dependent on ability, and who's performance is dependent on items.

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jhonto posted:

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I think that next-gen MMOs need to address a few issues:

* I think that the concept of a "level" is old and tired, as is questing or grinding to get your levels. While its true that working your way up through levels does give people a sense that they are achieving things, but in a game with large scale PvP like DAOC, most people seem to see the requirement to level up as an annoying barrier to actually playing the game.
* I think the worlds we play in need to be dynamic, where the actions of NPCs and PCs give rise to the events that happen in the game and all of the so-called content is "emergent" from the gameplay itself. The NPCs should just be set in motion and AI should control how they operate. Player actions could make a permanent change in the game, events on each server would be different because each would have its own distinct history.
* Equipment should not be the overwhelming factor that it is most MMOs. Lack of it, gathering it (usually a grind), etc usually acts as another barrier to participation in the game. (As a point: I am trying to equip an SB, someone in my guild suggested it will likely cost me around 200p. I spent the last 3p I had to get the first item on my list. Its gonna take me along time to finish templating him. This is a substantial barrier to anyone who hasn't been building up their bank account over the past 5 years).
* PvP should be fun and have an ostensible point, as with RvR here, and I think it should be persistent as it is in DAOC, but the power of the abilities you get should not be overwhelming as they can be in this game. As soon as a substantial part of the population reaches high realm rank, anyone else who shows up has another barrier to entry.

Substantial barriers drive people away in the end.

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