We all know that DAoC is one of the best (I'd say the best...) PvP MMORPG to ever be released. That being said, I always found the PvE content to be great as well--also better than most other MMORPGs imo. Anyone who has played DAoC and truly experienced RvR has fallen in love with this game, so why is it slowly dying out?

The once thriving list of servers has collapsed into a single super-cluster to keep the game alive. Should we enjoy our last year or two of DAoC until it becomes a low-pop shard-server game and then hope that a better game comes out soon?

I've been playing DAoC off and on since it was released. I've tried virtually every MMO to come out since EQ2 in hopes of finding a game that would invoke the same feelings that DAoC once did, but I had little success. Some games were fun for a while, but they never captured me like DAoC, and I always found myself coming back to DAoC for some awesome PvP.

So, let's go back to the diminishing player base of DAoC. For many, the game has lost its original flare due to the fact that most dedicated players have achieved everything there is to achieve, from RR to LGM crafters who are LGM in every craft. Also, people (myself included) have one or two bot accounts and don't need groups for PvE because you can do just about everything by yourself (with some obvious exceptions).

Old players play simply for the thrill of PvP. There isn't much else left for them to do. So what about new players? DAoC is a complicated game and new players (from what I have seen) rarely make it to level 50 unless they have friends who play and can hold their hand or power-level them. I believe that this is due to the lack of new players to group with. Figuring stuff out was always more fun when you were in a group! Can you imagine being a new player with nobody to group with (if you were to try playing DAoC today)? And we all know that new, low RR players very rarely find groups in RvR because it is now so elitist. And I don't mean that in a bad way. In order to survive in group vs. group battles, you need every player in your group to be a beast or you'll get run over; it's just the way the game turned out.

So what would be the benefits of a re-release of DAoC?

1) Devs could revamp (modernize) the interface and graphics and basically make DAoC into our much wished for DAoC 2!
2) An advertisement blitz would once again put DAoC back in the spotlight, and I'll bet it would smash most other MMOs.
3) Old players, returning players, and new players could coexist once again and form a new wave of DAoC love.
4) Instead of letting our beloved game become nothing more than memories and shard-servers, we could show the MMORPG community that newer does NOT mean better. If this succeeded, it would be like spitting in the faces of all the companies that have released garbage games with repetitive content. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has wasted hundreds of dollars on games that looked promising and turned out to be nothing but a pretty shell.

I know this is a radical idea and some people won't want to let go of their characters, houses, and plat fortunes, but this could be the shot in the arm DAoC needs to be great again. And this is the only possibility I see to re-energize the player base in a meaningful way. I don't know the details behind the feasibility of a re-release, but a man can dream!

Please discuss! I look forward to reading people's opinions. Please be constructive. If you don't like this idea or think it isn't possible, please give reasons!

 

-----signature-----

They just dont care about it anymore. This has been talked about many many many times.

 

-----signature-----

I agree that this would be an awesome idea, but it will never come to fruition because there is no developer interest anymore. EA owns DAOC now, and EA fails at producing quality games. I would be sick if EA ever attempted to replicate the greatness which was Mythic's DAOC.

As we have seen, EVERY MMORPG for the past 5 years or so has been almost an exact replication of WoW (sadly). I dream of another game incorporating DAOC's design... but for the next 5-10 years I think we will have to make due with WOW-like knockoffs and people spinning in mindless circles during PVP while shooting spells and lasers in all sorts of contorted positions all the while running away from you having no realistic LOS

 

-----signature-----

First, use your real account to troll.



Do you even play the game? New players not making it to 50 unless they are PLed? Are you serious? It used to take a casual player around a full year to hit 50 and now, with out any PLing, it only takes a casual 2-4 irl days to hit 50. With PL a toon can hit 50 in less than 12 hrs.


If a noob does not hit 50 and leaves, it is because they decided the game sucks and the noob has moved on.



Again, do you even play the game? DAoCs PvE is a joke. Most of the PvE is pointless. Unless the player PvEs in the very few and UBAR PvE spots most drops are pointless, most PvE experience is pointless, most PvE gold is pointless. Each expansion that came out made the previous PvE areas obsolete and now almost al PvE areas are pointless.


1) Mythic did advertise DAoC and found that advertisement did not help subscription numbers


MJ long ago stated that Mythic advertised DAoC and saw no increase in subscription numbers. Unfortunately MJ’s ego got in his way and rather than conclude that noobs coming to the game found the game lacking and it was this lack that gave the impression that advertisement did not work, MJ concluded that the game was fine and advertisement was pointless.


The truth is DAoC began dieing around 9 to 12 months after launch. Yep, that is what I said and the population charts show it.


For the first 9 to 12 months the game was growing at about 20k subs per month. At around the 12th month mark the population suddenly leveled off. It is highly unlikely that the influx of 20k per month suddenly went to zero. More likely is the influx remained at around 20K per month and the game suddenly began bleeding as many as were coming to the game.


In the beginning, it took a casual around 25 to 35 days /played to level just ONE toon to 50. For a casual player 25-35 days /played was around a full year irl. Also, each realm had a large variety of toons that a new player could level as alts and there were three different realms.


DAoC at launch had enough content to keep a player busy for more than 2 or 3 years yet at the 12 month mark the number of players leaving rocketed up to about 20 k per month. Something was seriously wrong but Mythic just played ostrich and stuck their head in the sand, NEVER addressing the basic and fundamental problems of the game.


The basic fundamental problems that DAoC had at launch, the problems that caused players to leave the game after only 12 months of play, those problems have never been fixed ergo advertisement today is still pointless. Actually the old problems have been magnified which makes advertisement even more pointless.


2) WoW proves that one of DAoC’s fundamental problems is NOT DAoC’s low quality graphics.


While it is true that the game needs a modernized UI, the graphics of DAoC are better than WoW and need I point out that WoW is still pushing over 10 million subs. DAoC has grand graphics when comparing DAoC’s graphics to WoW.


It would be nice if DAoC had the option for players to select better graphics but this is not something that will make or break the game.


I have always said, most players would play stick figures in the Frontiers if the player felt that the reduced graphics setting would make battles run smoother and give the player an advantage over the enemy. While that statement may be a slight exaggeration, most players turn down their graphics settings when going out to the Frontiers to do battle. Graphics is not as important as many want to believe. Yes nice graphics are . . . nice, but WoW proves that DAoC’s graphics are not a hindrance to subscriptions.


3) The vast majority of MMO players are PvE centric and if a game does not have good PvE, the PvE centric players will not stay for long, and DAoC’s PvE sucks.


WoW and other games show that the vast majority of MMO players are PvE centric. This does not mean they only PvE. On the contrary most PvE centric players also PvP. Many PvE centric players PvP a lot. What PvE centric means is, When a PvE centric player happens to want to get their PvE fix the player needs good PvE that has a logical and intelligent progression. If a game does not have good PvE then the PvE centric player will move on to other games.


PvE centric players will PvP and that is what makes the PvE centric important to a game. Without the PvE centric player, DAoC flounders. In the beginning of DAoC most of the players in DAoC were PvE centric. Most of the PvE centric players also PvPed/RvRed, and that is one thing that made the Frontiers great, but at their heart the PvE centric players needed good PvE to keep them at DAoC.


Today most of DAoC’s PvE is pointless. Most of the old world areas for PvE are for sightseeing only. If a players wants to level at an adequate speed with reasonable drops there are only a very few places to level in the game today, other leveling areas are simply obsolete.


Today a player logs in with their new toon. They ask people where to level, they go to the suggested areas to level. The next day they hit 50 and ask, “is that all there is to the PvE?” Then the next day the player starts another toon and the very following day that new toon is also level 50. The noob quickly finds that DAoC’s PvE is pointlessly over in almost no time at all. Then they leave for other games that have a more challenging and better-coordinated PvE.


Any who post that DAoC’s PvE is great, they are clueless or they are trolls.


4) The number of MMO players that would like what DAoC is, are already playing DAoC.


Over the years millions and millions have tried out DAoC. Mostly, those still in the game are the only ones that like what DAoC is. Yes there are Millions who have not tried DAoC but most of those who have not tried DAoC are PvE centric (isolated exceptions do not change a general truth) .


Today DAoC has been twisted into an almost exclusive PvP/RvR game. A player can enter the game and in a week, without PLing and with only minimal instruction from a Guild, have a templated level 50 ready to PvP/RvR in the Frontiers. If the player decides they do not like the first toon they leveled up, the player can use their experience garnered from leveling the first toon and in less than a week the player can have a second toon at 50 and templated. Except for a small bit of PvE, DAoC is almost exclusively a PvP/RvR game.


For the most part, MMO players who want a neglected, eclectic game with a gutted PvE and a focus on PvP/RvR have, over the last decade, found or heard about DAoC.

 

-----signature-----

Just so you know I got my new Warlock to 50 in two and a half hours, PL'd by Warlock with block bot to 45 then TOA glass quests for the rest. It's crazy fast.

 

-----signature-----

"First, use your real account to troll."

This is my first and only account. I discovered long ago that forums such as this typically aren't worth looking at. I wanted to get opinions from DAoC fanatics, so I posted here. Don't make stupid assumptions.



"Do you even play the game? New players not making it to 50 unless they are PLed? Are you serious? It used to take a casual player around a full year to hit 50 and now, with out any PLing, it only takes a casual 2-4 irl days to hit 50. With PL a toon can hit 50 in less than 12 hrs.

If a noob does not hit 50 and leaves, it is because they decided the game sucks and the noob has moved on."

Do I play the game? I've been playing since before SI. I'm talking about NEW PLAYERS, not NEW CHARACTERS. I am well aware of how stupidly easy it is to level characters for people who know how to PL or utilize TDs and such.

By your own statement, you said that the PvE sucks, so leaving before 50 is like not having played the game? Also, when I first started playing, I tried to get my brother to play. He got to level 18 and quit. Many years later I got him to play again and he loved the game.



"Again, do you even play the game? DAoCs PvE is a joke. Most of the PvE is pointless. Unless the player PvEs in the very few and UBAR PvE spots most drops are pointless, most PvE experience is pointless, most PvE gold is pointless. Each expansion that came out made the previous PvE areas obsolete and now almost al PvE areas are pointless."

DAoC PvE is a joke? What, are you one of those people who enjoys running around doing retarded quests like in WoW? I'm talking about the times where a group would go into a dungeon (Avalon City, for example) and pull 20-30 purple mobs and burn them down with PBAOE. The Xan PL raids, dragon raids, all that old stuff that people don't have to do anymore. I had a lot of fun doing that stuff. I'd much rather grind some xp with a group--which I find fun--than do some BS quests. Yes, I agree PvE was made obsolete, but when you had to group with people it was FUN. Hell, I even enjoyed PLing people with my chanter + druid and bard bots because I got to pull a bunch of crap and kill it.

 

-----signature-----

"First, use your real account to troll."


This is my first and only account. I discovered long ago that forums such as this typically aren't worth looking at. I wanted to get opinions from DAoC fanatics, so I posted here. Don't make stupid assumptions.



"Do you even play the game? New players not making it to 50 unless they are PLed? Are you serious? It used to take a casual player around a full year to hit 50 and now, with out any PLing, it only takes a casual 2-4 irl days to hit 50. With PL a toon can hit 50 in less than 12 hrs.


If a noob does not hit 50 and leaves, it is because they decided the game sucks and the noob has moved on."


Do I play the game? I've been playing since before SI.

[colorurple]Your comments indicate a lack of understanding as if you do not play. That has not changed just because you say that you do play. Unfortunately many people on VN say things that are not true. Again, if you do play it is confusing that you would even consider saying that stuff about players needing to be PLed today when it takes only 2 days to hit 50 without any PL at all. It would seem that you are using isolate exceptions to form a general rule and that is not logical. . . . or you do not actually play anymore.[/color]


I'm talking about NEW PLAYERS, not NEW CHARACTERS. I am well aware of how stupidly easy it is to level characters for people who know how to PL or utilize TDs and such.

[colorurple] First, I will address the comment about TDs. TDs are no longer the best place to level (not even close to the best place to level). If you play you should know that.


Second, I know that we are talking about NEW PLAYERS. Read it again and do not skim. [/color]


By your own statement, you said that the PvE sucks, so leaving before 50 is like not having played the game?


[colorurple]No, leaving before 50 is like not having played the part of the game you feel they should be playing. You still seem to be caught in that fautly paradigm where you think everyone else would/should love the parts of the game that you love (that or your comment makes no sense). Again, most MMO players want good PvE (isolated exceptions do not change a general truth). Most MMO players will leave a game that does not have good PvE. If Mythic wants players to stick around, making it easy to get to 50 is not what is needed. The game needs good PvE.


The initial game had better PvE than it does today but even back then it was not good PvE. It was good enough to keep the typical player for about 12 months before the player got fed up with all the stupidity and frustration. Mythic could have seen the indications of the problem and fixed it but they pretended the problem did not exist. Like you they had a faulty paradigm.[/color]


Also, when I first started playing, I tried to get my brother to play. He got to level 18 and quit. Many years later I got him to play again and he loved the game.


[colorurple]Isolated exceptions do not change a general truth of what the typical MMO player needs in a game.[/color]



"Again, do you even play the game? DAoCs PvE is a joke. Most of the PvE is pointless. Unless the player PvEs in the very few and UBAR PvE spots most drops are pointless, most PvE experience is pointless, most PvE gold is pointless. Each expansion that came out made the previous PvE areas obsolete and now almost al PvE areas are pointless."


DAoC PvE is a joke?


[colorurple] DAoC’s PvE is a joke for the typical MMO player. Even a bit down you admit that DAoC’s PvE is obsolete.[/color]


What, are you one of those people who enjoys running around doing retarded quests like in WoW?


[colorurple]I am not discussing what I want or like. I am discussing your comments and I am talking about what the typical MMO player needs in a game. If you like what the game is today, you are not the typical MMO player and the game should not be designed around what you want. Sorry but it should not be designed for a tiny percentage of players.


Designing a game for such a small percentage of players leads to a dieing game that does not have the money to properly upkeep and repair a game (exactly what we have with DAoC today). While the game should allow you to have fun, it is best when it also allows others to have their fun too.


Also, my likeing quests or hating quests would not change the fact that large numbers of MMO players do like quests and only a the clueless using a faulty paradigm would denigrate those who like quests or suggest that DAoC would be better if designed without quests.[/color]


I'm talking about the times where a group would go into a dungeon (Avalon City, for example) and pull 20-30 purple mobs and burn them down with PBAOE. The Xan PL raids, dragon raids, all that old stuff that people don't have to do anymore. I had a lot of fun doing that stuff. I'd much rather grind some xp with a group--which I find fun--than do some BS quests.


[colorurple]And in a properly designed game you should be able to have fun but so should the general MMO player. Your paradigm seems to exclude players that like things other than what you like. That is not the way to design a game, not if the game company wants enough money to keep the game alive and growing.[/color]


Yes, I agree PvE was made obsolete, but when you had to group with people it was FUN. Hell, I even enjoyed PLing people with my chanter + druid and bard bots because I got to pull a bunch of crap and kill it.


[colorurple] So PvE is obsolete (what I termed a joke) or it isn’t? Previously you state it isn’t a joke but here you say it is obsolete. You seem to be contradicting yourself.


I stand by my previous comment. For the typical MMO player the PvE in DAoC is a joke.[/color]

 

-----signature-----

The problem is EA. The game was year perfect when Mythic owned it. After EA took over, the game went into the toilet. I can't tell you how many useless/pointless hot fixes and patch notes were tossed in by EA..far too numerous to keep track of. EA needs to stick to their sports games, and should have left everyone from Mythic on staff. They were so much more open, so much more engaging, so much more enthusiastic about the game. Remember the recent video for ten year anniversary? What a sack of laziness. They couldn't even pay proper video editors. And that new President is a big snooze bore too. He looked like he was faking his "excitement".

 

-----signature-----