I agree, Theurgists need some loving since they lack of the spells that should have been implement in game a bit after release. However I don't think the problems we face today result of the creation process of the theurgists spec lines but more of how the game evolved. Just think about SC and those uber resists( I have myself everything capped).


Mythic has to admit that they missed their goal when creating the theurgist as a siege master. What to do from now? Make the theurgist a siege master or a reliable class with rounded up abilities.


If we find an answer to this then we can do something to fixe the theurgist class.

Get in line right behind all the eldy's that *have* to spec mana in order to be of any use. Theurg's are in the same position, 3 spec lines, 1 viable. My sympathies go out for you, but don't expect much from Mythic. Play the viable version of your class, or change classes, it's that simple. Do we all like it, no. Is there much we can do about it, I think not. It's apparent to me that Mythic's agenda is not driven by what we want, but what they want. It will always be this way, get used to it.

"maybe you just need some skill. 5 minutes ago I was just chain stunned by air theurgist pets. 3-4 second stun on each. "


LIAR!


that is all I can say. Show logs buddy.


Air pets stun for 1 second.


1


ONE


UNO


OOOOOOONNNNNNEEEEEEE


second.


that's it.


ok, maybe you are not a liar... just seemed like that long. but still... its really one second.

Animists are worse off then you are .

bumping this thread, hope Mythic takes a look.


Give Theurgists a better RA than Siege bolt


Add to, tweak, or fix the Ice and Earth lines.

Theurgists have become a completly poinltess class in this game, even more since one of our main tools (out of the very few that we have)the attack speed debuff no longer interrupts. It is true that other nuking classes that can not debuff their own damage type are also suffering.


Mythic needs to adress the issue with resists. If they truly intend to leave resists the way they are then ALL casters must be given the ability to debuff their own damage since not being able to do so resulsts in pitiful damage for this caster.


Some casting classes are able to adapt via other means that are relied on (ae mez,pbae etc.) Theurgists have no form of ae damage. The level 39 ae mez is resisted more then 50% of the time while my Sorc's level 36 mez is hardly ever resisted.


A fair way IMO to help this class while helping casters of all realms is to give each of them the ability to debuff their spec dd. At the moment some classes can debuff their own damage while some can not. The casters that can not are the ones who are truly suffering.


Atomical Sol

R8L9 Unicorn Knight of Tristan.

I too think theurgists need help. Air is Ok, an Average line. But earth and Ice just blow. The RA Siege Bolt is all but useless. When I made my theugy I did so because i saw they were the "Masters Of Siege" I dont really bother to go to keep takes anymore im really just a liablity there as I just use up all the power of the necros as they try to keep up with my power. And the Clerics keep wasting power on rezing me, when they could be using that same power to rez one of the more useful classes.

But compounded on that is also (as other have said) the general gimpyness of casters throughout all realms.


Mythic logic:

Casters can cause wide spread havoc with AE mezes and Nukes and debuffs THIS means they must have little to no defense so they can be put down fast.


Accual Events as ignored by mythic:

Casters are put down FAST! So they never cause any havoc or destruction because 98% of the time they are flat on thier faces in the wet grass of emain.


Its a catch 22. We are put down fast to stop us from going nutz. But because we are put down fast we never accualy do go nutz. This means casters never get to do anything. And guess what? They roll tanks.


Add this to the nerfdome of earth and ice theugs and it completely surprizes me there are any lvl 45+ theugies still playing them.


Rokar Winterbourne lvl50 air Theurg

(Amoung others)

i have been playing a theurgist for a very long time now. i split the time with my scout as well. oddly enough i have to say that i made the theurgist because i got tired of my scout constantly getting bt'd.


Alco - Spec: 45 earth, 29 ice.


so what do i have to say for myself? this will probably be a long read.../deep breath


i guess i should start by listing the things i love(and i do mean LOVE) about my therugist, which is still by far my most favorite class in the game.


1. i love 6sec pbt, especially in pve where it is borderline godly.

1.5 i love the attack speed reduction, combined with 6 sec pbt i can run away from tanks trying to kill me almost indefinately as their slow weapons bounce off my bt.

2. i love caster speed. it's not a godsend, but it's better then the regular crawl.

3. i love my ice pets. don't expect that to kill stuff for you, but they will put healers completely out of commision just long enough.

4. i love mcl2. if you don't have it, get it NOW. it's the only thing that will keep you IN a fight. i end up using it once every fight and it's usually just enough.


i find as an earth theurgist i do just enough to help the group to help us win. most people don't fully understand the effectiveness of an earth theurgist, but they are a good class. with serenety2 and mcl2 i'm usually in good supply with mana atleast enough to last me through one fight.

i'm not really bothered by the archer change, especially since there are so few archers in mid and hib. it's the wardens adn the rm's that should be pissed.


so far everything seems peachy keen. so what's the problem? get ready...


1. earth pets are virtually useless. they got longer range? woopty f'n do! if i send an earth pet at it's maximum range it will just barely get to my target and maybe swing once. all they do is eat up your mana and only actually semi effective when combined with ice pets. i use my ice pets far more frequently.

2. i can't stand the fact that i NEED serenity2 and mcl2 just to maintain any amount of power. if i didn't have serenity2 i would be constantly losing power while running 6sec pbt.

3. ice nukes take far to much power for their low dmg output. especially while running 6sec pbt. i need to have ice focus on my staff instead of earth, just so i'm not constantly and always hurting for power.

4. pbt is the only useful thing in the earth line. the ONLY useful thing, and with a back-up spec in ice the only useful thing i get are the pets, the nuke and the ae root are too innefective that that spec to be useful.

5. i'm infuriated that there are only two effective specs for a theurgist. earth/ice or air/earth. earth/ice means you simply sit around watching fights, and air/earth means you're a good nuker, but as far as utility you're more or less just pretending.

6. theurgist specs have by far the fewest "tools" per line. earth: pbt/pet/speed dec. ice: nuke/pet/root. air: nuke/pet/mez. and what really gets to me is that air and ice are redundent. you never see an air/ice theurgist. there is nothing offered by ice that air doesn't do better or just as well.

7. melee speed debuff is single prson and on a long timer. it'll take me forever to debuff everyone so i just don't bother with it unless i'm being threatened.

8. for a siege caster, i can't seem to really do much sieging. where's my gtaoe? why are my pets so inneffective against doors? siege bolt does not a siege caster make, it's an RA not a spec given ability.


what am i getting to?

well, for a utility caster(as opposed to the 1-button nuker) i see very little utility in my class. maybe not even in group combat, maybe just in sieging ability.


suggestions.

earth(don't need them all, but 1 or 2 would be nice)

- give earth spec a bolt like the earth wizards or give earth spec gtaoe which is basically only useful in sieging situations.

- give earth pets higher dmg output on keep doors, atleast i'll feel better about the most useless pet available.

- give earth spec a door af debuff

ice

- there's really nothing "wrong" with ice. the problem lays in the poor back-up specs. noone specs ice/air because of the redundency, and few go ice/earth because they're better off specing air/earth for the better DD's.

- possibly increase effectiveness of the ice pets, better snare, less resists, or maybe even root instead of snare.

air

- by far the most popular main spec for theurgist, it's only flaw is the lack of reasons to spec air/ice.

- also, there's a huge lack of reason to spec air as a back-up. it offers no real utility except for the mez, which is already short and is further shortened by the low spec. as far as pets, if you've got earth or ice pets why bother with the lower spec air pets?

- either increase the range of the mez or increase the area of the mez. i understand that an air theurgist mez should not be as good as the sorc mez, but at this point it's just a crappy version of it...might as well just use the ice aoe root,

- longer cast range for an air pet is borderline silly because of the short durration of the pet. it may get a chance to swing once and most likely MISS.

- how about an ice resist debuff?


i don't belive that all these changes are nessisary, but some would do well for the utility class which is suffering from a lack of utility. the only really unique and cool things about the theurgist are also the highly innefective and largly unplayable aspects of the class: the pbt and the pets which are so power consuming that it makes them almost undesirable.


well, disect me if you will. these are my opinions and i'm not ashamed to be proven wrong, but i urge you strongly to consider these things as a overview of the class and how it could stand to improve.

Fido:

"They are working as intended. "


we are intended to be siege specialists. how are we working as intended? We are intended to be the utility caster yet have less utility than all other casters ... how is that working as intended?


I quoted as intended because that was the only statement i was responding to and didn't feel the need to clutter the rest of the post with things that were irrelevant to my post. I never said you said that you wanted theurgists nerf'd... 'nerf me' was meant as my way of saying 'I give a flying monkey about housing ... bump'.


-------------------------------------------

Blackhunter:


"3-4 second stun on each" Liez. Theurgist air pet has a 1 second stun.


"They also said in that patch that once you get over 1000 crafting you have a 1/6 chance for an mp, nice lie as well" No, they said that LGM crafters (renamed L) would have a 1/6 (~16%)chance to make 94-99% items and a 1/50 (2%) chance to make an MP item.


"you losers lose all credibility when you carry your crying over to the air line. " Explain to me why, Blackhunter, the air line should have the shortest range mezz in the game when that mezz is NOT instant-cast and is the shortest duration mezz in the game (at equal spec levels).


"if you can't kill a target who is perma interupted by zerg pets," sigh. Lets look at, say, a shadowblade. They have no access to determination or ignore pain. Lets say its a shadowzerker and in a group (for targetting purposes). You target said SZ @ 2000 range. Cast one pet - he stops, /waves at the big sign that is over your head that says 'fresh meat' - and to chain stun you will need to do this *roughly* 4 times. 4 pets seem to stun a target pretty well. At cap speed thats 6s worth of cast time. 6s is *plenty* of time for SZ to get in your face and whack you in the head. Once that happens ... you get to quick cast one nuke ... then stand there and die. Of course you could always QC a mezz ... however your stupid pet hitting for 20 damage will conveniently break that for you before you can get away. At this point, with the QC dd and the 4 pets you have used up ~33% of your power. When was the last time an enchanter took 33% of its power to kill a rogue-hp player without IP or determination?


beyond all that ... air is a decent spec. It just needs some minor help with the mezz (extending its range to 1500 or making it insta, making it a stun or increasing its duration would all be possible solutions) and fixed pets like all lines need. Granted the air pet is the most useful, but being the king of the mountain doesn't mean much when the mountain just dropped from a cows behind.


Ice and earth are just junk. Yes the instant attack speed debuff (earths only spell, really)--ALL CLASSES attack speed debuffs--no longer interrupts casters. yes enchanters melee damage debuff does interrupt.


-------------------------------------------

Liddle:


"Get in line right behind all the eldy's that *have* to spec mana in order to be of any use" Hmm ... taken from the camelot herald: Eldritch light spec line (Shadow Control) has nearsight, level 45 209 spec DD, 1500 range aoe mezz, dex/qui debuffs. Very similar to the theurgist wind spec-line 'cept theurgists get no nearsight and a pet instead of a debuff and a 1250 range mezz. Course the pets abilities are negated by the eldritches base-line stun which is infinitely cheaper (mana-wise) and more effective than air pets. And you are saying the eldritch mana line is better than the light line (which i agree with) ... that makes eldritches broken how? everyone seems to think and agree with the fact that wind is a viable spec line ... but it is not as good as eldritch light yet you are saying everything but mana is not worth specing. I'm confused. Seems like at least 2 viable spec lines to me.

lock this PoS thread.


perma stunning no-immunity un-cc'able pets is more than enough.Oh, on top of that..we give you speed, 10sec pbt, AE mez, nukes.