Dont forget ice theurgists, I know we all want earth to be made good but ice is really lacking also.

Sure, Ice is short a few things, but Earth is the single worst spec line in the game.

Heck! I'd be happy if they made EITHER earth or ice viable!!


Well, that plus make siege bolt comparable to other class specific RAs.

/bump

You know what would make theurgs a good spec, One way simple way easy way, allow us to get two points instead of one point spec. That way you could easily spec in both wind and earth. Simple, fast and easy.

2 points per level would let us get 50 in 2 spec lines and 28 in the third with minis. And we still would be a subpar caster class. We need changes and we need them a year ago (or now).

(Cut n pasted my original post from the official Theurg discussion boards)


First we're gonna have to start with some facts. Before 1.62, earth theurgists were mainly useful for shielding against a rain of arrows at main gate standoffs or keep sieges. They're lousy nukers, all CC has been nerfed by SC / Determination / Cheap Purge.


That's gone now. What are earth theurgists good for?


Indeed, what?


Suggest a 1 minute immunity timer to be added to the Friction line of spells since it's the last (and only unnerfed) secret weapon in the earth theurgist's arsenal.


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Cynical? Just look at these first person accounts of the incredible power of Friction!


(Name Withheld), Level 50 R7L4 Light Eldritch from Hib (Server Witheld) had this to say about Friction:

"we used to pwn groups dum enough to run with earth theurgists. theyd like spam those pets n we'd stt and watch em run back an whack em over and over lololllolol. and their baseline ice nuke lol. but after 1.62 we gotta watch em close or they run and find a spot ta friction. 5 sec to take down a caster instead of 4 sec is 4-ever for r tanks so we gotta nearsight em fast."


(Name Withheld), Level 50 R4L5 Ranger had this to say about Friction:

"Since 1.62 I've had the misfortune of running across more than one earth theurgist out solo pwning stealthers. Now I pop out of stealth knowing that while I pop his bubble, and chew through his hitpoints in about 5 seconds, that there's the odd chance that he'll get within 1500 range... and then he casts "it". And I'll be damned if my fire time doesn't go from 1.0 sec to 1.19 seconds. It's freaking awful. Sure their earth pet won't make it to us before I kill the guy, but I'm sure they have sprint on thier hotbar as '1' now, and that awful level 47 spec earth 'paralyzing friction' on the quickbar as 2. Whack! Friction. It even lasts 2 minutes at a 19% penalty to speed! We need at least a 1 minute immunity timer on friction to prevent re-friction. Nerf Friction now pls!"


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Actually, I think Mythic has done Earth Theurgists a favor in 1.62. Where the awesome power of 6 sec bubble in RvR was overshadowing the real power of the Friction line of earth spec spells. Not only that, with the low mana cost and insta casting time of this spell, think of all the slow you can cause.


Who needs a variant of suppression runemaster, with their nearsight, DD/snare, AoE DD/snare, pbt, and non-specline bolts and fun and varied skillset when those Earth Theurgist masters o siege have Friction.


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A modest proposal:


AoE Friction

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AoE Friction would be a nice addition to the Earth Theurgist's core spellset.


Make it a 5 second cast time, 1350 range, 350 radius and give it the Minstrel's "Victory Mez" animation.


Classic.

rofl, I love the above post.


Honestly, why do theurgists get no love? Either love us, or merge us with wizards, but we're miserable as-is.


With my free respec of 1.63, I went from 26earth/32air (headed to the cookie-cutter 45air/26earth spec) to 35earth/22ice. I wanted to be different, even though, after some serious thought, I know the earth/ice lines are quite subpar. Why is it so wrong to ask to be different?


Ice has serious issues.


The ice nukes are less delve damage than the air nukes. My only supposition is that they claim the damage of the ice pet evens it out, but the ice pet is resisted rather often (tested it at 42 against a 35 friar with and without self cold buffs), so it's really a non-issue. Why not bump up the ice damage to at least be on par with the air damage? (Speaking of the baseline ice nuke, as the specline ice nuke is just silly.)


Specline ice nuke also has lower damage, with a snare effect. Nice, but doesn't work at all with the specline AE root. Why are these two not on different timers yet? Or why doesn't the snare component get changed to an ice debuff? Additionally, the suggestion of simply adding a cold debuff in the ice line was a wonderful one. It's not like ice/earth theurgists are killing anyone now, and this would hardly become fotm.


Lastly, why on god's green earth do ice nukes cost more power? What reasoning was behind that? Most people who spec "full" earth (45 or 47) use their remaining points in ice to lessen the variance on baseline nukes. Earth already has more power problems than I can think of.


Earth has serious issues.


We have a pet, who melees for around 100ish, and that's IF the pet reaches the player in time, IF the player simply stands there and allows themselves to be whacked, and only useful IF the theurgist isn't dead already from the tell-tale "Hey, I'm easy realmpoints, come kill me!!!" pets.


We have an attack speed debuff. Whee.

The suggestion of having AE attack speed debuff would be fun, but it's still mostly useless.


We have pbt. Yah, that does so much good now that the archer changes are in and 6 sec pbt costs so much power you basically *can't* do anything else. We're better off running speed, picking up our robes, and heading for the hills as soon as an enemy is sighted. At least we wouldn't have rez effects when the fight's over.


Wind has an issue.


Why is mez range deficient? Why has this been asked forever, and never answered? Rest of the specline is fine, imo. But now that necros are out, spirit nukes are no longer even a good pve way to go, as there's nothing a theurgist can take that isn't being shared by 2-3 necros anyway. heh.


Pleasefixtheurgists!!!!!!!!

Edit: Oh, yeah, /bump.

"1) The other 2 lines suck too much to use

or

2) Wind is real cheap.


I dont think it is #2..


LOL I am pretty sure tis #2... and #2 alone...


For to make ice and earth as appealing as or even more appealing than air you'd have to make the other speclines just as cheap as air is...


Now excuse me... how are you going to make them more appealing than what air has available?


You need only mix with enough earth to get the 10 sec PBT. Doh you would get the ghetto mezz? Your ghetto mezz is just what most part of the Healers on Midgard get since most will go only 39 Pacification.


Now combine it with your 2000 range chain stunning pets and the highest damaging dd and you have something... Simple combo mezz some pets dd dd and a dead target...


Air theurgists are even cheaper against Mids... Since healers aug line just plain sucks Mids don't have the spirit resist buff... So an Air theurgist DD nukes like this against 29% spirit resist lvl 50 toon.


http://www.shadowkan.com/sb/lori.JPG


540+ dmg per dd for no need for debuffs


"there are far more cheap lines in the game, and in Albion to play. And all the evidence points to #1."


Far more cheap lines? Nope, in Albion there are classes as cheap as Air Theurgist...

Example the 437 dmg in the pic above is from a necro (necros can also abuse of Mid lack of Spirit resists)... And there's always the extra cheapo Matter Cabalist, the best dotter in DAoC hands down, sporting AE DoTs, 2 stackable single target dots on the same line, nearsight, focus shield and pet recycle for power...


What Earth and Ice Theurgists need is a good nerf on Air specline and then maybe Mythic will give some love to those two lines...


Till there respec to air and go to Mid Frontier to farm RPs

Well...I think this quote wrapped up the situation with Theurgists lines well:


"The only worse spell line in the game than the Theurgist's Earth line is the Theurgist's Ice spec line."