"Kleenex: as for ACDualClient, if I had ANY control over what it did ingame, I'd attempt REALLY hard to make it not usable for UCM. Unfortunately I can't. Also unfortunately for OTHER players are the players who feel the need to exploit a tool which was NOT designed for CoC breaking activity and use it for something that goes against Turbine's wishes. ACDualClient was originally designed and written to help with secure trade and muling. It wasn't written to be able to PLAY 2 characters or macro them. Back when ACDualClient was written, there were no public combat macros. We all know who we can thank for that. If perhaps it could have even been forseen that combat macros would be as widely used today as they are, then perhaps it would have changed my opinion on releasing ACDualClient."


Totally undertood bud. But if we're talking about taking a realistic view tho, then the intent of the design and writing of the program is moot. I would not wager on the percentage of users who use ACDC to macro multiple accounts, but Im pretty sure there's quite a few out there. Hell, if you go EO now adays, don't be surprised if some fellows are filled by 2 - 3 "real" people only, playing 2 - 3 accounts in the same fellowship, without benefit of the same number of computers.


As to the proliferation (sp) of "public combat macros" out there, your guess is most likely much better than mine, However, I'm pretty sure I've heard of macroers (heh, UCM was not yet coined, or used in ac ) quite a long long time now. One distinct memory were archers, dozens of them, standing on this one wee column of stone in the Acid stone dungeon


All im saying is, and lord i hope you don't listen to me , is that if you really want devs/progs do give a realistic view on things, I suggest you look to the home first. Hell, and I don't mean to bring in another dev into the topic but, do you think El Tank writer really thinks Tank is not used to UCM?

 

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Kleenex: I think you missed my point..


I DID look home first.. I studied the impact of a Dual Log application within the context of AC at the time.. Macros had not been invented yet.. the Archer macros and others came AFTER I released ACDualClient (at least the public ones).


When I designed and released ACDualClient, the only impact it had on the game was allowing players to securely place items between accounts. Machines of the time weren't really even possible of playing AC well with 2 clients running unless you had a top of the line machine. We're talking OLD school here.


When I studied the impact, Dual Logging was already happening anyway. I just created a way to make it easier. And for the most part, as far as I know.. it was being utilized "properly". Since macros really didn't exist in a public sense at the time, players were using Dual Log to mule items, and perform trades. It worked nicely. Then came the macros and other things. How could I have known it was going to happen when combat macros themselves weren't even around yet?


But knowing what we know NOW should impact the judgement of CURRENT developers developing NEW software. I don't expect them to read into the future for activities that haven't happened yet, but I do expect them to learn from the past, and make changes to the way they design new applications or plugins. That's what history is for.. to learn from. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

The reason why I have released the PK functionality of this plugin is not a matter of me not caring, I do not believe plugins that give an unfair advantage should be created or released.


That being said, I do not believe that giving a character the ability to see who is around them more efficiently is really that much of an advantage at all. You have plugins like this for all other aspects of the game. Make It for trade skills, Eltank or Lifetank for combat, MuleTrader for Trade bots, among dozens of other plugins. They all make that area of the game less stressful for the player. In my opinion Make It and MuleTrader have far more negative conotations for this game than any simple detection plugin ever will. They are providing players a means to not only create items with trade value to other players, but doing so at mass-production levels.


Make It alters the very basis for trade in the game, the economy. This combined with applications such as MuleTrader, not only allows player to achieve wealth relatively easily, but harms other players that do not use the plugin. Decal is an API that provides ONE thing, the ability to automate tasks inside of AC. The above mentioned plugins are available to everyone, anyone can have this advantage if they so choose.


Now lets talk about advantages..


Arguing that it gives certain PKs advantages over others is a farse, you already have the ability to select PKs and attack them on your own, so instead of seeing (Name) says, "Cruath Quasith", you see "[Spies] Detected : (Name)" first and it gives you the ability to select them and vuln them. It does the same thing that every other plugin does, it cuts out the middle work. However it doesnt even do it completely, it is up to YOU the player killer to attack and kill them, which is no way is an advantage explicitly given by the plugin.


I released this code with full ethical reasoning on the matter, and after testing of this plugin over months I realized that the plugin really didnt effect how PKing worked. Just instead of cycling through a list of 20 PKs with the ; key to find that one I want to attack, I am able to select and vuln them automatically. I have fully read the Code of Ethics, and I believe that the views expressed in the article are outdated for the most part in context with this game.


I will quote you a line from the Code of Ethics:

"Asheron's Call is not a static game. . . . The threat changes"


I cannot truly believe that a PK detection plugin for the local area can in any way provide a threat to the game. This is not an unfairly released plugin, all players have the ability to download it just like any other plugin. It is up to the player to determine if they would like the middle work cut out (them pressing ; then End to cast the spell) or not.


-Replex

Please, that is such a stretch on talkng about the effects of Make It! and Mule Shopper on the economy that it is laughable.

 

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I didn't bother reading half the posts since I can't believe how much ya'll wrote about this. I mean, for gods sake, it's a detection plugin. Sixth Sense and Bandit Sight could both be setup to detect admins/envoys before ToD was released. Did ya'll attack Faile for allowing us a plugin that did that too? I should hope not.


Do you also realize how many plugins do this same feature as a side effect? Virindi Chat System has it, Spies has it, ELTank has it, Alinco could probably do it, CastAway buff bot can be setup to do it with a little editing, LifeTank has an alarm that wont stop until you press a special button and even then you can set it up to automatically reply to certain sentance structures even so far as to ID stuff those admins are holding so you can tell them what's inscribed on their wand. There's also always ACTool which can be setup to do anything, even everything I just stated.


I know that this doesn't make it right in some people's eyes. What I can't believe is the amount of people, including vnboard board volunteers and decal devs, that have now ruined what could have been a support thread for a very usefull plugin. How many times do you all tell people not to go off topic? This is one side-effect turned feature that ya'll are fixated on, and if you really want to run Replex into the ground for his plugin he wrote for free for the community, please make your own GD post.

sui: you'll notice that I didn't say one word until azrealthelost called the acdevs hypocritical.


after that I got called hypocritical for not treating paraduck the same as I treat other UCM plugin makers just because he is vault producer, so I had to clarify my position on that. I didn't start the off topic threads. I just defended myself and the other decal devs when people started to call our integrity and responsibility into question.

Drakier: Point taken, but as a non-dev and someone who doesn't care about all the plugin politics, I didn't bother reading. It's not a good excuse, but it goes to show why this thread should be locked.