Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
I don't think threat is the issue. To me, the issue is the difficulty and the "tricks" surrounding Trash.
For example, after the first boss in Grim Batol, the golems cast Quake. Apparently you are supposed to jump to get out of it. Well, miss your jump and the group usually wipes.
I could give more examples, but what is the point?
The point is, that once you DO get to a boss, you are so pissed off with previous deaths that after 2 or 3 shots, the group calls it quits and that is that.Â
I like the harder boss fights, but the trash leading up to them need to be nerfed.
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I survived to the end and got nothing out of it, but hey.
Arunne Title: The Anonymous Posts: 177 Registered: 2003-11-3 14:11:47
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
I think what you're missing here since you didnt play Lich King is that the game went AOE crazy. Tanks could press 2 buttons, and control 10 mobs. Then the DPS in the group went balls to the wall on the DPS on every pull. Meanwhile the healer would occasionaly cast a heal here and there.
What GC is doing now is trying to train the people who only played/raided during WOTLK how to play the newer/better/harder wow that doesnt encourage massive AOE pulls and makes healers go OOM on trash pulls if you dont CC certain mobs.
Edit - These were directed at what Elkabong08 was saying/asking
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Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
Arunne posted: I think what you're missing here since you didnt play Lich King is that the game went AOE crazy. Tanks could press 2 buttons, and control 10 mobs. Then the DPS in the group went balls to the wall on the DPS on every pull. Meanwhile the healer would occasionaly cast a heal here and there.
What GC is doing now is trying to train the people who only played/raided during WOTLK how to play the newer/better/harder wow that doesnt encourage massive AOE pulls and makes healers go OOM on trash pulls if you dont CC certain mobs.
Yeah, I get that too....I did a couple of WotLK dungeons when I came back and it was like the whole group had ADHD. Still.....How many new subsribers did WotLK bring in? It sounds as if this issue is not limited to a handful of new subscibers over the last year or two, but includes a large segment of the player base. What about the other millions of players that played vanilla and BC? Did they all forget how to play their class over the last year or so, or was it always this way and I never realized it because I was so guild centric? Or did Blizzard just unintentionally teach almost everyone crappy gaming skills with their design in LK?
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
-Mithan- posted: I don't think threat is the issue. To me, the issue is the difficulty and the "tricks" surrounding Trash.
For example, after the first boss in Grim Batol, the golems cast Quake. Apparently you are supposed to jump to get out of it. Well, miss your jump and the group usually wipes.
I could give more examples, but what is the point?
The point is, that once you DO get to a boss, you are so pissed off with previous deaths that after 2 or 3 shots, the group calls it quits and that is that.
I like the harder boss fights, but the trash leading up to them need to be nerfed.
LMAO!
As an AQ40 hunter-playing veteran from vanilla in a guild where it was admitted widely that hunters were our trash martyrs, I will agree with you that "tricks" on trash suck donkey ****.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
slythetove Title: Julie's Pool Boy Posts: 146 Registered: 2001-11-7 11:12:56
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
Vault_News posted: On the other hand, when threat is too hard to maintain, it can be exasperating. Tanks get understandably frustrated when the game is asking them to do something but not giving them the tools to do it. The non-tanks in the group also become frustrated, because they feel throttled. It?s one thing when overcoming the boss is challenging. It feels worse when you know that another player is standing in your way, keeping you from achieving your top performance.
Replace "threat" with "healing" and "Tank/s" with "healer" and you see exactly the situation they created with healing.
So, they care about tanks not being throttled by their group or exasperated, and want them to have tools to do their job, but healers can suck it.
I never really listened to the hatewagon for this guy before, but I'm starting to.
--Sly
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"a slap in the face" since 1975
85 Priest - 85 Hunter - 85 Mage - 83 Druid
81 Warlock - 80 Paladin - 80 DK
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Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
Elkabong08 posted:
Arunne posted: I think what you're missing here since you didnt play Lich King is that the game went AOE crazy. Tanks could press 2 buttons, and control 10 mobs. Then the DPS in the group went balls to the wall on the DPS on every pull. Meanwhile the healer would occasionaly cast a heal here and there.
What GC is doing now is trying to train the people who only played/raided during WOTLK how to play the newer/better/harder wow that doesnt encourage massive AOE pulls and makes healers go OOM on trash pulls if you dont CC certain mobs.
Yeah, I get that too....I did a couple of WotLK dungeons when I came back and it was like the whole group had ADHD. Still.....How many new subsribers did WotLK bring in? It sounds as if this issue is not limited to a handful of new subscibers over the last year or two, but includes a large segment of the player base. What about the other millions of players that played vanilla and BC? Did they all forget how to play their class over the last year or so, or was it always this way and I never realized it because I was so guild centric? Or did Blizzard just unintentionally teach almost everyone crappy gaming skills with their design in LK?
It's a combination of both the player base not understanding basic game mechanics and Blizzard teaching them to be lazy (adopting farmville game designs for example). The extent of the problem varies by patch, but it's been there since day 1. It's also really not even a WoW specific problem. The United States, in general, tunes to the lowest common denominator as a long term strategy in order to maintain a minimum level of productivity.
I'm also not sure why there's a ton of GC hate here or at least the perception of GC hate. I think that it's a good thing when GC communicates what he's thinking with the community. I'd rather more communication that some people disagree with rather than none at all. I also find that most of the negative responses are from people who either don't understand what he's saying or are too emotional to listen.
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Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
slythetove posted:
Vault_News posted: On the other hand, when threat is too hard to maintain, it can be exasperating. Tanks get understandably frustrated when the game is asking them to do something but not giving them the tools to do it. The non-tanks in the group also become frustrated, because they feel throttled. It?s one thing when overcoming the boss is challenging. It feels worse when you know that another player is standing in your way, keeping you from achieving your top performance.
Replace "threat" with "healing" and "Tank/s" with "healer" and you see exactly the situation they created with healing.
So, they care about tanks not being throttled by their group or exasperated, and want them to have tools to do their job, but healers can suck it.
I never really listened to the hatewagon for this guy before, but I'm starting to.
--Sly
In the interest of fairness I will say that the tank has traditionally been the rate limiter for groups. Tanks have always had the most stringent gear requirements, the most critical rotation/skill choice decisions to make, etc. That persisted through Vanilla, BC, and the first 1/3rd or so of WOTLK.
Once people start to L2P, the pressure will be lessened for healers who have indeed had their fair share of it all along but not MORE than their fair share as tanks have had. When that pressure is reduced for healers, the pressure will again be on the tanks' shoulders.
That said, again, I do sympathize with the frustration of trying to get the troglodytes to actually at least meet "cretin" status.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
slythetove Title: Julie's Pool Boy Posts: 146 Registered: 2001-11-7 11:12:56
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
Cawlin posted: In the interest of fairness I will say that the tank has traditionally been the rate limiter for groups. Tanks have always had the most stringent gear requirements, the most critical rotation/skill choice decisions to make, etc. That persisted through Vanilla, BC, and the first 1/3rd or so of WOTLK.
Once people start to L2P, the pressure will be lessened for healers who have indeed had their fair share of it all along but not MORE than their fair share as tanks have had. When that pressure is reduced for healers, the pressure will again be on the tanks' shoulders.
That said, again, I do sympathize with the frustration of trying to get the troglodytes to actually at least meet "cretin" status.
I've tanked with every class, and of course I agree that the tank has always been the one in charge of how the flow goes. Actually, that's part of the problem right now.
Tanks are not standing up for their healers in randoms. They aren't looking to see if they have mana, and they aren't telling the DPS to stop doing stupid crap and yelling at the healer for no reason. In fact, tanks are doing stupid crap and yelling at the healers too.
When I tank, my healer is my first concern. I will do everything possible including die to prevent their death.
When I heal, my tank is my first concern. I will do everything possible including die to prevent their death.
When I DPS doing damage and avoiding taking damage, and the survival of my healer are my concerns. I will do everything possible including die to prevent a healer death.
Currently, nobody gives a crap about healers because they think healers are at fault for letting the group die. Everyone wants to go go go, and since the healer is the one asking them to slow down it's all their fault. It's pathetic.
--Sly
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"a slap in the face" since 1975
85 Priest - 85 Hunter - 85 Mage - 83 Druid
81 Warlock - 80 Paladin - 80 DK
70 Rogue - 70 Warrior
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
slythetove posted:
Cawlin posted: In the interest of fairness I will say that the tank has traditionally been the rate limiter for groups. Tanks have always had the most stringent gear requirements, the most critical rotation/skill choice decisions to make, etc. That persisted through Vanilla, BC, and the first 1/3rd or so of WOTLK.
Once people start to L2P, the pressure will be lessened for healers who have indeed had their fair share of it all along but not MORE than their fair share as tanks have had. When that pressure is reduced for healers, the pressure will again be on the tanks' shoulders.
That said, again, I do sympathize with the frustration of trying to get the troglodytes to actually at least meet "cretin" status.
I've tanked with every class, and of course I agree that the tank has always been the one in charge of how the flow goes. Actually, that's part of the problem right now.
Tanks are not standing up for their healers in randoms. They aren't looking to see if they have mana, and they aren't telling the DPS to stop doing stupid crap and yelling at the healer for no reason. In fact, tanks are doing stupid crap and yelling at the healers too.
When I tank, my healer is my first concern. I will do everything possible including die to prevent their death.
When I heal, my tank is my first concern. I will do everything possible including die to prevent their death.
When I DPS doing damage and avoiding taking damage, and the survival of my healer are my concerns. I will do everything possible including die to prevent a healer death.
Currently, nobody gives a crap about healers because they think healers are at fault for letting the group die. Everyone wants to go go go, and since the healer is the one asking them to slow down it's all their fault. It's pathetic.
--Sly
Well I hear you and without having experienced it myself, I believe you. All I'm trying to say is that you should just let them rot with their misconceptions until they L2P.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
Threat Needs to Matter
Cawlin posted:
slythetove posted:
Cawlin posted: In the interest of fairness I will say that the tank has traditionally been the rate limiter for groups. Tanks have always had the most stringent gear requirements, the most critical rotation/skill choice decisions to make, etc. That persisted through Vanilla, BC, and the first 1/3rd or so of WOTLK.
Once people start to L2P, the pressure will be lessened for healers who have indeed had their fair share of it all along but not MORE than their fair share as tanks have had. When that pressure is reduced for healers, the pressure will again be on the tanks' shoulders.
That said, again, I do sympathize with the frustration of trying to get the troglodytes to actually at least meet "cretin" status.
I've tanked with every class, and of course I agree that the tank has always been the one in charge of how the flow goes. Actually, that's part of the problem right now.
Tanks are not standing up for their healers in randoms. They aren't looking to see if they have mana, and they aren't telling the DPS to stop doing stupid crap and yelling at the healer for no reason. In fact, tanks are doing stupid crap and yelling at the healers too.
When I tank, my healer is my first concern. I will do everything possible including die to prevent their death.
When I heal, my tank is my first concern. I will do everything possible including die to prevent their death.
When I DPS doing damage and avoiding taking damage, and the survival of my healer are my concerns. I will do everything possible including die to prevent a healer death.
Currently, nobody gives a crap about healers because they think healers are at fault for letting the group die. Everyone wants to go go go, and since the healer is the one asking them to slow down it's all their fault. It's pathetic.
--Sly
Well I hear you and without having experienced it myself, I believe you. All I'm trying to say is that you should just let them rot with their misconceptions until they L2P.
But then you don't get to play, or at least play your healers in the meantime. That option sucks too, eh?
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