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Topic:
Class Balance testing on the PTR [Locked] |
Vault_News  Title: 0110011010
Be Nice to Me I'm a Bot
Posts: 982
Registered: 2005-10-18 12:53:17
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
Bashiok posted:
Quote:
The PTR does not exist solely for balance feedback. They provide crash reports, bug reports, having the patches simply live on a test environment with people actively playing helps us catch a great number of issues that no one would even need post about. Beyond that though the bug reports that are posted are extremely helpful, and overall the PTRs lead without a doubt to a more stable patch than it would have been were there no public test.
In direct answer to what you're referring, unless there's new content, the number of people on the PTR is really pretty low. Too low to pull reliable metrics to base balance changes on. Unless there's new content to drive people to the PTR there generally just isn't a sample size. Which is fine, because we can make changes after the PTR once the patch hits the live realms. Issuing hotfixes after a patch is by no means something new. We've used hotfixes for quite a long time, but since Cataclysm and the new community site, hotfix changes are front page news through the blogs. Which is awesome. Before we were throwing out pretty much the same amount of hotfixes we were after 4.0.6. Difference being we didn't have a great way to tell anyone about them. So now hotfixes are very visible and it makes it seem like we're going crazy with them, when really it's just increased transparency into the changes we're making.
Going back to your question, the PTR does many great things for the patches, and it should be expected that we're not going to make balance changes based on forum posts alone. The designers don't believe their own play experience is reason enough to make balance changes, although it can be one part of the puzzle, and the same goes for us reading about yours.
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Ugh_Lancelot Title: Ooo...bouncy!
Posts: 766
Registered: 2002-6-17 14:37:05
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
"[T]he number of people on the PTR is really pretty low."
What a vapid, redundant statement. Low versus what? Sure, the sample size might be small enough that you don't catch all edge cases but it will definitely tell you if your base numbers are in line. This response really tells you that Bashiok has no idea what goes on between the PTR, Dev and QA at all. Or was told to give out a pat response.
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Rezzinu  Posts: 185
Registered: 2004-4-17 10:20:46
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
They need to start crunching numbers then before they put a patch live. Not just say, "Oh, too much DPS! Cut (insert spell here) by 25%!" And then proceed to hotfix it.
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Keeping your knowledge a secret leads to arrogance...
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
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Every single person I know that is on the PTR is there for one reason... to see new content, period. That way they can learn it all then rush it on live servers. I literally don't know one single person who goes to the PTR to do any kind of actual testing. It might as well just be a private server in my opinion for all the bugs and crap that make it through to live servers.
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Quazimortal  Title: The One and Only
Posts: 1,557
Registered: 2004-9-18 21:52:58
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
Vault_News posted:
Class Balance testing on the PTR
...does not exist.
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We provide the music, and you provide the silence.†~Leopold Stokowski
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Sprawl-zero1eye- Title: IGN Vault Staff
Reziztance iz Futile
Posts: 1,001
Registered: 2002-6-28 03:39:29
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
PTRs aren't really there for class balancing. I can accept that generally they need a bunch of numbers to run through the cruncher to really balancing things to a T. The problem, imho, comes with trying to balancing things to a T, and to do it rather haphazardly. Changes should be considered, pondered, and tossed around internally before being deployed. I imagine, like most companies, they do this, but the string of hotfixes, and reverts for those hotfixes, suggests that they aren't doing it enough.
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Making iOS Apps these days at http://zsprawl.com/iOS |
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
If they worried less about all the classes doing "equal damage" etc, and more attention paid to making each of them unique in their own way, they wouldn't have this problem.
Chasing class balance is the worst thing devs can do. Past a certain point, all tightening the balance does is reduce the wiggle room between class performance, which is then parsed, which in turn magnifies the new differences, and turns back into "class A is stronger than class B" whines, and the process repeats.
It is, in effect, a closed system.
But then, the WoW B team is composed of australopithicines.
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Thanks, but it's been fun
Five more minutes then I'm done!
I've been saying that to myself since
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Dums Title: Moderator
The mystery flavor
Posts: 248
Registered: 2002-10-29 08:17:13
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
But then, the WoW B team is composed of prehistoric apes.
fixed
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hi
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Demorak  Posts: 300
Registered: 2009-1-16 11:20:55
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
Dums posted:
Broken_Kayfabe posted:
But then, the WoW B team is composed of prehistoric apes.
fixed
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"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer."
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Cawlin Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
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Date Posted:
1/1/00 12:00am
Subject:
Class Balance testing on the PTR |
If we accept that certain classes will be favored for certain fights and certain fight mechanics, with every dog having their day so to speak - so that no raid just excludes a given class for a given raid instance due to ineffectiveness, then class balance for PvE balance should be laughably easy to perform. With the proper application of modeling mathematics and proper understanding of a) class abilities and rotations b) fight mechanics and gimmicks, there really should be no issue as you can accurately model the presence or absence of buffs and synergies in a development environment. The only real chockstone to that is putting in the effort.
As for PvP balance (setting aside arenas which should be balanced on a separate arena-only server with class changes not spilling over into the non-arena servers) in BGs you have a bit more of a challenge because of crowd control and mobility and abilities not specifically related to healing or doing damage and whatnot, however, battleground PvP is also balanced by larger groups and thus minor imbalances are easier to live with.
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If ignorance were painful, half the posters here would be on morphine drips.
Everyone playing WoW knows everything about playing two classes: 1) their own and 2) Hunters
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