LOL I didn't bother to read that far into the thread. I got to the first dozen or so posts where someone was whining about being stereotyped because they showed up to heroics in PvP gear...

Your description of the progress of the thread to this point tells me that indeed this is the same thread, different expansion...

 

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It's ok, I'm use to low expectations where your posts are concerned

 

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Trust me, I know what ya mean...

 

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hehe

 

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Cawlin, your post just shows that you know nothing bout the gear obtained from normals in cata vs the crafted pvp set.

Thank you for clearing that up for us.

(or season 10 honor gear vs heroic 5 man gear for that matter)

 

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Oh siht! Ya got me!! I lost my gdamn wowhead link!!!


Still same thread, different expansion lol.


Oh and, still, the overwhelmingly vast majority of fresh 85s running around in dungeons wearing PvP gear are scrubby knuckleheads. Exceptions exist of course, but their existence as exceptions proves the rule otherwise. This too, is just like in the past.

 

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So, what you are saying, is that you are fine with people showing up in sub-par gear, as long as it is labeled "PVE" gear.


Funny, I would have thought that you would want people to show up in the best gear possible.....


/boggle

 

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I guess I am the only one amused a thread the bot started about knowing your class abilities and using them to contribute in groups quickly became a epeen contest over gear?


My point is, in a typical random group, I could not care any less about gear, it's just a WoW 5 man. It is not just released raid content. These people that 'expect' all random strangers to be raid geared and fully enchanted are just being asshats. There are new level 85's starting the heroic monotony train everyday- just know what the hell you are doing and I am already pleasantly surprised and satisfied. If you don't know, ask, and the 1 or 2 things you need to know about today's encounter with the brutal and ruthless WoW AI can be explained in a couple sentences.


I am pretty certain I most often start kick votes over "that guy" who spends all their time in a random typing in group chat about how person A needs to get "the correct enchant" on a single item of gear, or how we cannot proceed because person B is wearing half PvP stuff. Meanwhile "that guy" while wearing the "correct gear" is doing the least dps, or not CCing, or not healing up the tank, or not pulling and/or holding threat on more then 1 target at a time as the tank, etc and so on.


Yes you can contribute quite well in a 5 man using PvP gear, no, not as well as an equally PvE geared person given equal ability, but 90% of the production is just knowing your class and making an effort. The one exception I might say would be for tank gear, but even that is not as much of a difference now since the Cata changes and reforging launched.

i wish mages would start making food tables in groups again...that would be helpful.

Actually no, I advocate using the best gear available to you, period.

Since vanilla WoW I have advocated this.

In fact, late in vanilla when they removed the rank requirements for the PvP HWL weapons, I used them on my raiding hunter - and that was back in my "serious" raiding days where we had a C'thun kill well before most guilds had done so.

During BC, I advocated using the PvP gear even when it required arena points, as a means to fill gear gaps from raid gear, and advocated raiders taking 10 and out losses each week in the arenas if needed just to garner arena points to earn that gear.

There was a problem though early on in BC when the PvP gear came out and was so much better than PvE gear, it really sort of waylaid the entire raid progression issue and enabled people to skip raid content which was actually important to the raid game for a lot of reasons.

Did you forget that I was the one with the PvP gear post that was stickied here for a long time?

As for the fresh 85 in PvP crafted gear in heroics - I stand by my statement that the overwhelming majority of people doing this are newbs.

Yeah, some of you will be leveling alts and will be showing up with your fresh 85 alt in crafted PvP gear having already run all the 5-mans in normal mode and heroic with your mains, of course I would not advocate that you re-run normal dungeons because you already know the gimmicks and so forth (unless of course there were some key pieces of gear from normals, but I suspect there really aren't any). However, many others are not in that category.

Most of them are buying the PvP gear and burdening their 5-man randoms with PvP specs and their lack of group play experience along with their "solo" mentality when they show up and do 5% of the group's overall DPS (because they're almost never tanks or healers lol).

The reason I said this is the same thread, different expansion is that it's the same old argument where people blather on about the PvP gear which is coming later in the expansion and about how heroics aren't hard and how they can handle them, all the while pretending that they're not doing old content wearing new gear that wasn't around when that content was released, using tactics that nobody knew when that content was released, being carried by people who've done the content and know it inside and out, are already geared beyond that content themselves.

It's also the same thread, different expansion because it's the same old crap about "PvP makes you more 1337, just look at how we tear up PvE content" (7 months after the content was released, in gear that was not available when the content was released, being carried in randoms by people who've done the content and outgear it, etc.).

In the end, the truth is that when the majority of "PvP" players show up to do PvE content, they somehow just cannot manage to do the things which some of you rightfully state are simple, like not standing in the fire.


Oh and for clarification: I have always advocated that when playing WoW as part of a group, it is the individual's responsibility to optimize their performance as part of that group. That includes optimizing their gear (within reason), talent spec, ability usage, and optimizing your actual play. I know most of you think this is a laughable concept since you believe that everyone in WoW owes you an enjoyable game experience that is as you define it.

That means:

1) Show up with the best gear you can get your hands on (I don't expect you to have it enchanted/gemmed unless you're raiding).

2) Show up with a proper talent spec that includes group PvE friendly talents that have a reasonable likelihood of being used. Your combination of "AV talents" for your main spec, and "WSG talents" for your off spec, when they exclude basic PvE talents isn't going to cut it imo.

3) Be willing to use abilities that may impair your DPS or may benefit the rest of the group more than they benefit your character individually - CC, Kiting, Snares, Sunders, Debuffs, etc. Also, be aware of and use your optimal PvE ability rotations and strategies to optimize your performance (i.e. DPS/Healing/Threat generation and survivability).

4) Don't be AFKing and holding the group up by doing stupid things because you're playing distracted or while you're making dinner or something - be focused on the matter at hand IN GAME, or don't participate in the group/team activity in game if you cannot focus on it.

5) Finally, where there is a reasonable expectation that you know the content, make efforts to show up knowing it. I.e. if you haven't at least run the normal version of a dungeon, showing up for the heroic is bad form.

 

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