I think the "aoe" str/con debuff is way more effective than the single target resistance debuff of a chanter. It's instant, and it's aoe and the amount of con it drops equates to much faster kills than what the chanter's single target debuff adds.

I give the chanter's single target debuff as much credit as any other classes (which there are plenty of others that get em'. It can be great in special circumstances but it's not something worth using all the time and with so many chanters people make it beyond useless in pve because everyone keeps casting it at the mob over and over, which just shortens the duration by half each time one lands, resulting in very, very small periods of effectiveness. that's just me though.

Know what has very crappy effectiveness? Str con debuff that's what. Once the mob takes any damage it has a much more diminished effect . Know what you can apply over and over and over again for 1.4k pre crit pbaoes? Debuffs that's what.
The best damage in this game is caster damage hands down and for you to say that a spell which significantly increases that damage is less effective than a str con debuff is beyond retarded. You've just gone full retard bro.

 

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Actually you are wrong Pass. Emasculate Strength not only decreases the constitution (and hence the hit points) of the mob(s) in question, it also increases dmg done to those mobs while in effect by an average of 20.1%-22.1%. Don't ask me WHY it does becuase I truely don't know. It shouldn't, but it does. I have tested this quite a lot and whether you want to believe it or not, it's true. The following is an article I posted after doing some testing on it on both live mobs and the test mobs on Pend.


http://www.gaheris.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=472


I'm not saying that the resist debuffs are bad or not effective, but the truth is that the Sm Str/con debuff ( as well as others that get it such as Sorc, ect.) is quite effective and stacks up to alot of extra dmg.

 

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Meh... it's a difference of opinion about a dead game.

I disagree, oh well.

The Str/Con debuff increases damage for the same reason buffs make your pet near invincible: attribute buffs/debuffs work differently on mobs than players. Specifically, they add to or reduce the mob's ABS and resist values. In the case of your buffed pet, that means less damage. In the case of the debuffed mob, it means more damage. If you can get it to land the instant AE dex/qui debuff in Darkness would help as well.


Also, the intercept pet has a nasty habit of intercepting before your tank's shield has a chance to block for you. So unless your tank often faces the wrong direction, what intercept really does for you is make you recast your pet a lot for no reason.

Useful: Guard=>PBT=>Intercept=>ou.

Reality: Intercept=>Guard=>PBT=>ou.

Will the pet take some hits that you otherwise would have? Yeah. But not enough to justify recasting him over and over.


In general though, SM > Chanter (especially if your group has another speed buff). The Chanter wins for doing epic mobs with small groups where they can either focus pull or heat debuff for a Tic.

I had no idea stat debuffs increased casted damage.
My point still stands that resist Debuffs are more effective than stat Debuffs though it's easier to aoe stat debuff for a large group.

 

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In regards to the first bold statement:
That makes a lot of sense to me in retrospect. A friend and I had tested the str/con debuffs and noticed significant damage increase, but when I used a similar aoe debuff that didn't affect con the same extra damage remained.

To the second:
I've found that a group heal every now and then, pet heals (if your power is not a problem), and ML9 go a long way to eradicate my pet being recast except in extreme battles, in which case I'm glad it took the hits and not me lol.

the stats effecting resists hasnt always been that way. i was always under the impression that mobs have resists and absorb but no stats. when you buff up a pet it still gets raped by magic damage so the stat buffs/debuffs bolstering or weakening resists doesnt make sense.

is this something added in the past 2 or 3 years?

It's been this way forever. It's why a chanter could focus pull Galladoria in the pre-ToA days: The buffs made the pet near invincible, and a cleric heal proc and menty HoT did the rest.


Your impression is correct so far as I know. The mob (and pet) has no stats, just ABS, resists, and hits. Every stat debuff reduces the ABS and resists, even a Str debuff. If that sounds retarded, keep in mind we're talking about Mythic's coding.


As for why your pet still gets raped by magic, that's because it is level 44 and the thing casting on it is probably level 56+. Even with ML9 or Juggernaut, Mythic (wisely, for once) leaves the pet's level for calculating magic resists at 44. If they didn't do this, ML9 pets would be even bigger and more unholy terrors in RvR than they already are.

Think of it this way: Take two toons with the same number of hit points, but one is level 44th and one is 50th. Give them both 23% resist to cold from gear (where the 44th toon tops out), add in a red cold resist buff so they are at 47% cold resist. Now take them to Glenlock and let them get repeatedly cold nuked. I guaruntee the 44th toon dies first, even with the same resists and hit points.

The closer to the pet's level the magic-casting mob is, the less noticeable this effect will be.

Finally (and this is purely a guess) your pet likely starts with an ABS value because of it's 'armor', but probably does NOT have any magic resists to speak of. So when you buff it's ABS up to 75%, it's magic resists are probably still down below 50%.

The SM has the AE Str/Con debuff, the baseline Suppression Str debuff, and if they can get them to land the Darkness spec Dex/Qui and baseline Dex debuffs to all stack up and reduce a mob's ABS/resists. Of course there is the small problem where using all 4 is both time consuming and a power hog.

I play solo usually.. no bot.. and i really like the ice wiz.. when running scared i hit the aoe snare that works most of the time then pick off the bad things or run outta range (whichever is the better part of valor.. up to judgement)..

plus the fact that his single target ice damage is a nice debuff as well.

Fer keeps in groups he has represented fairly well.. no complaints that i have heard and i encourage critiques.. as long as they are real

fun stuff

 

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