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Author Topic: When people talk about medicare fraud, what do they mean? [Locked]
cherrim  1 star
Posts: 68
Registered: 2003-4-6 21:57:39
There is a lot of fraud out there. I do not know the numbers and $70b sounds high, but it's pretty rampant.

A chiropractor came to give a talk to our class. He was trying to put together a defense for a pending trial in which he was being charged with over $3mil in medicare fraud. He was billing for all kinds of services, but most of his fraud consisted in billing for an hour-long session when he only spent 15 minutes with the patient, or billing for a manipulation technique (similarly to medical procedures this gets the practitioner more money) when he really only did a basic exam. Stuff like that.

Eventually the feds caught up to him and now he is going around telling kids not to do what he did. This was just one guy who over the course of 5-6 years took $3m from the taxpayer.

 

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Yukishiro1  4 stars
Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
Like I said, I don't doubt there's lots of fraud.


But 70 billion would mean 15% of medicare expenditures were for stuff that never even happened. That is obviously not credible.


The 70 billion number is a catch all for fraud, waste and abuse. I would be shocked if straight-up fraud is more than maybe 10% of that number. 7 billion is a LOT of straight-up fraud.


edit: http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-409T


This is where the number comes from and like I said it is a catch-all for fraud, waste and abuse. I will check if they break it down.
Groucho48  3 stars
Posts: 821
Registered: 2003-10-22 03:00:14
Well, herte's hgow the Republican Governor of Florida, Rick Scott, company did it...

From Wiki...


Quote:

On March 19, 1997, investigators from the FBI, the Internal Revenue Service and the Department of Health and Human Services served search warrants at Columbia/HCA facilities in El Paso and on dozens of doctors with suspected ties to the company.[20]
Following the raids, the Columbia/HCA board of directors forced Scott to resign as Chairman and CEO.[21] He was paid $9.88 million in a settlement. He also left owning 10 million shares of stock worth over $350 million.[22][23][24]
In 1999, Columbia/HCA changed its name back to HCA, Inc.
In settlements reached in 2000 and 2002, Columbia/HCA pled guilty to 14 felonies and agreed to a $600+ million fine in the largest fraud settlement in US history. Columbia/HCA admitted systematically overcharging the government by claiming marketing costs as reimbursable, by striking illegal deals with home care agencies, and by filing false data about use of hospital space. They also admitted fraudulently billing Medicare and other health programs by inflating the seriousness of diagnoses and to giving doctors partnerships in company hospitals as a kickback for the doctors referring patients to HCA. They filed false cost reports, fraudulently billing Medicare for home health care workers, and paid kickbacks in the sale of home health agencies and to doctors to refer patients. In addition, they gave doctors "loans" never intending to be repaid, free rent, free office furniture, and free drugs from hospital pharmacies.[4][5][6][7][8]
In late 2002, HCA agreed to pay the U.S. government $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims.[25] In all, civil law suits cost HCA more than $2 billion to settle, by far the largest fraud settlement in US history.[26]

 

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GrilledCheez  4 stars
Title: The Lord's Balls
Posts: 1,060
Registered: 2006-3-22 11:06:32
I know a lot about this. I can't say too much. Suffice it to say that every type of fraud you can imagine. Fake doctors. Fake patients. Real patients with fake procedures for fake doctors. Every type of fraud you can imagine is perpetrated by professional defrauders who make millions upon millions of dollars each year.

 

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eodoll  4 stars
Posts: 1,028
Registered: 2002-2-14 12:35:42
Wasnt thre a big medicare fraud bust of some russian mafia n LA? They had setup fake doctor offices and were billing medicare for all kinds of services.
GrilledCheez  4 stars
Title: The Lord's Balls
Posts: 1,060
Registered: 2006-3-22 11:06:32
The number Yuki mentioned at the top is completely legit. It may even be higher than that. You guys would be amazed if you saw enforcement/audit efforts on fraudulent medicare claims. AMAZED.

And yes it is absolutely done by professional groups. Yuki assumes that waste and overbilling or over treatment are higher than actual fraud, because he believes there is a layer of competence on fraud enforcement that isn't there. it is quite literally super easy to make millions.

 

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imaloon1  3 stars
Posts: 674
Registered: 2003-9-15 07:19:53
Yukishiro1 posted:

Tych2 posted:

That plus also probably people faking injuries. Bad backs etc.



What's the incentive? The person doesn't get any money from that from medicare.

That sounds like disability fraud, not medicare fraud.

Or you mean they're faking for some other reason - probably disability - and medicare ends up paying for treatment for a fake injury? But how many people who get medicare are still working and have an incentive to try to pretend to be disabled?



I think the fraud is from medical institutions (Nursing Homes etc...) come to mind that bill Medicare for services for people that are dead or didn't get the treatment...

 

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