AzureTyger posted: Even though the Indiana Supreme Court found no constitutional violation in the Voter ID law, they stated that it solved no known problems and was a transparently partisan tool for suppressing Democrat turn out.
I say go ahead and support it if you want to. Just be aware that: A) The facts don't support the need for it and B) It is an acknowledged method of suppressing voter turn out of one party. Then smack yourself in the face with your irony board every time you whine about partisanship.
I get it. People afraid to show their ID are assumed to be Democrats, likely black. Typical Liberals assuming that all blacks are criminals. I wish the Democrats would get away from their racism. That would be like asking a blind man do see.
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Moe_Nox posted: Voting regulation needs to be revamped at every stage.
You are correct, there is absolutely no evidence to warrant modernization of our procedures, aside from hanging chads, dead voters, voting multiple times, Florida, Supreme Court decisions, etc.
Ofcourse the liberal answer to any improvement is always "well this is just a drop in the bucket and won't solve everything!1!"
Modernize? Sure. Fraud is most likely to occur behind the scenes. The owner of Diebold, who makes voting machines, guaranteed victory for Republicans. When Democrats went...Uh..wat?!?, Republicans laughed and mocked Democrats for being paranoid about fraud. But, yeah, all forms of recording the votes should have a paper trail that can be checked, if necessary, by an outside authority.
If someone or some organization really wanted to steal an election, the kind of fraud that could be prevented by picture IDs would be their last choice. It requires lots and lots of people, is very risky, is almost impossible to do in large enough numbers to actually make a difference, subjects everyone involved to felony charges and is very difficult to pull off.
In Florida, for example, in 2000, shortly before the election, Republican officials purged about 10000 black voters from the voting lists, claiming they were all felons. Turns out, well after the election, that 90% were perfectly legitimate voters. THAT'S the kind of thing that needs to be addressed.
As for dead folks voting, just update the rolls closer to the election. No reason for there to be a 2 or 4 week lag. Not that this is much of a problem, anyway.
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Moe_Nox posted: Voting regulation needs to be revamped at every stage.
You are correct, there is absolutely no evidence to warrant modernization of our procedures, aside from hanging chads, dead voters, voting multiple times, Florida, Supreme Court decisions, etc.
Ofcourse the liberal answer to any improvement is always "well this is just a drop in the bucket and won't solve everything!1!"
Modernize? Sure. Fraud is most likely to occur behind the scenes. The owner of Diebold, who makes voting machines, guaranteed victory for Republicans. When Democrats went...Uh..wat?!?, Republicans laughed and mocked Democrats for being paranoid about fraud. But, yeah, all forms of recording the votes should have a paper trail that can be checked, if necessary, by an outside authority.
If someone or some organization really wanted to steal an election, the kind of fraud that could be prevented by picture IDs would be their last choice. It requires lots and lots of people, is very risky, is almost impossible to do in large enough numbers to actually make a difference, subjects everyone involved to felony charges and is very difficult to pull off.
In Florida, for example, in 2000, shortly before the election, Republican officials purged about 10000 black voters from the voting lists, claiming they were all felons. Turns out, well after the election, that 90% were perfectly legitimate voters. THAT'S the kind of thing that needs to be addressed.
As for dead folks voting, just update the rolls closer to the election. No reason for there to be a 2 or 4 week lag. Not that this is much of a problem, anyway.
You are really up on myths. I wish you would spend as much time trying to find the truth.
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There are three kind of liberals;
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The result is always evil but the intent is not always evil. Not that it makes much difference in the long run.
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Tych2 posted: Problem: There is NO voter fraud
Solution:
Its always curious to see this response. People are sure there is voter fraud. THey cant prove anything. There is no evidence there is a problem with voter fraud. Yet they demand a fix...even without any evidence there is a problem. Tych's response is pretty classic in this case.....there is no response...we just have to assume there is a problem.
Raising hurdles to voting will suppress legitimate voting. If you are going to do something that suppresses voting, you should have an argument why we will be better off. Few even try to make this argument. I dont expect Tych to have a huge study drawn up...but you would expect someone proposing legislation to have some evidence.
Without evidence of a problem, its hard to support actions that make it harder for people to vote. We need more people voting. This country tries really hard already to make it a challenge to vote.
I saw a story about this Indiana situation. The GOP was pressed to provide support for a problem. They presented a long list of names of voters with fraudulent activity. All of them turned out to be clerical errors by the voting staff...except for the one guy who died after the election and showed up as voting and dead. So again...no actual fraud. Yet that has no impact on the discussion. Makes you wonder why that is.
Tych2 posted: Problem: There is NO voter fraud
Solution:
Its always curious to see this response. People are sure there is voter fraud. THey cant prove anything. There is no evidence there is a problem with voter fraud. Yet they demand a fix...even without any evidence there is a problem. Tych's response is pretty classic in this case.....there is no response...we just have to assume there is a problem.
Raising hurdles to voting will suppress legitimate voting. If you are going to do something that suppresses voting, you should have an argument why we will be better off. Few even try to make this argument. I dont expect Tych to have a huge study drawn up...but you would expect someone proposing legislation to have some evidence.
Without evidence of a problem, its hard to support actions that make it harder for people to vote. We need more people voting. This country tries really hard already to make it a challenge to vote.
I saw a story about this Indiana situation. The GOP was pressed to provide support for a problem. They presented a long list of names of voters with fraudulent activity. All of them turned out to be clerical errors by the voting staff...except for the one guy who died after the election and showed up as voting and dead. So again...no actual fraud. Yet that has no impact on the discussion. Makes you wonder why that is.
You do realize you could have just saved a lot of time typing and just posed: Solution:
Its a lot of work for something I am not going to read.
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Ashmaele Title: Pastor of Muppets Posts: 1,809 Registered: 2002-1-15 08:30:50
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
Voter Fraud
AzureTyger posted: Even though the Indiana Supreme Court found no constitutional violation in the Voter ID law, they stated that it solved no known problems and was a transparently partisan tool for suppressing Democrat turn out.
I say go ahead and support it if you want to. Just be aware that: A) The facts don't support the need for it and B) It is an acknowledged method of suppressing voter turn out of one party. Then smack yourself in the face with your irony board every time you whine about partisanship.
I say we require people to show proof of having voted before they are allowed to receive welfare benefits or state assistance of any kind. I'm guessing the tards who are pushing these restrictive new laws will not agree, though.
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Ashmaele Title: Pastor of Muppets Posts: 1,809 Registered: 2002-1-15 08:30:50
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
Voter Fraud
Bobvillas posted: Why do ID cards hurt Dems and not Reps?
Who is it going to hamper from voting?
The whole ****ing point is to come up with bizarre barriers to cross that are ostensibly not discriminatory but are. How are poll taxes discriminatory? Grandfather clauses? Literacy tests? Eight box laws? In each case, the law is superficially non discriminatory but overwhelmingly disenfranchised poor people and minorities.
How it's discriminatory:
- come up with a litany of documents required to procure government ID
- empower registers to arbitrarily enforce the requirements.
Quote: Dorothy Cooper is 96 but she can remember only one election when she's been eligible to vote but hasn't.
The retired domestic worker was born in a small North Georgia town before women had the right to vote. She began casting ballots in her 20s after moving to Chattanooga for work. She missed voting for John F. Kennedy in 1960 because a move to Nashville prevented her from registering in time.
So when she learned last month at a community meeting that under a new state law she'd need a photo ID to vote next year, she talked with a volunteer about how to get to a state Driver Service Center to get her free ID. But when she got there Monday with an envelope full of documents, a clerk denied her request.
That morning, Cooper slipped a rent receipt, a copy of her lease, her voter registration card and her birth certificate into a Manila envelope. Typewritten on the birth certificate was her maiden name, Dorothy Alexander.
"But I didn't have my marriage certificate," Cooper said Tuesday afternoon, and that was the reason the clerk said she was denied a free voter ID at the Cherokee Boulevard Driver Service Center.
"IDs are easy to acquire, and free!!!!" are nice cute GOP talking points to trot out, but yes, it's often a burden for 96 year old black people to get to an office and then produce the litany of documents a white Tennessee bureaucrat might require and approve of.
The GOP knows the type of people who are qualified voters are going to have a tough time meeting the ID requirements are poor and/or black. The GOP media machines know they can frighten their anger bears to agitate for voter ID laws by shouting ACORN and FRAUD and TONY ROMO MICKEY MOUSE in the same sentence enough. Strategy crafted and now implemented.
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Sea_of_inK posted: Around 10 percent of eligible voters don't have a government issued ID.
In Texas, I can vote if I show my gun permits, but they recently disallowed school ID to vote.
Obviously most of these laws are to keep people who vote a certain way out of the political discourse. Since there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, this is the only explanation. We've go serious problems and the GOP is coming up with ways to limit VOTING! Besides being a waste of time, it's incredibly obvious of them.
Don't buy into it. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
That's (the bold) not true. Your gun permits are a state or county issued legal identification document. School IDs are not nearly as rigorously checked out, and in fact, are historically easy to fake. You can't get into a bar with a school ID in any reasonable place either. Being that I live in a college town I can tell you for good and goddamn fkn certain that bars WANT all the students they can get into their establishments, but they won't let you in with a PSU ID card.
It's funny to me that libs point out all these "obvious" (nefarious) reasons that others want voters to identify themselves, while pretending that the OBVIOUS reason that they oppose it isn't basically the exact reason they accuse those who do want it of having.
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Ashmaele Title: Pastor of Muppets Posts: 1,809 Registered: 2002-1-15 08:30:50
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:01amSubject:
Voter Fraud
Cawlin posted: That's (the bold) not true. Your gun permits are a state or county issued legal identification document.
What about voter ID cards?
Seriously, I voted last week and was not even asked for my voter registration card. All they wanted to see before they would hand me a ballot was a state issued picture ID.
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