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Author Topic: "No Child Left Behind" being waived for some states... [Locked]
Cawlin  4 stars
Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
paulg_68 posted:

Actually you're the one stuck on semantics. My argument is two things:

1) Teaching the way you say standardized testing pushes teachers to teach gives inferior results (on tests) compared to teaching the right way. Therefore it is not the tests that are driving teachers and administrators to do things the lazy way.



Standardized testing has a place in education, but its place is presently inappropriately emphasized. School funding and even teacher advancement and compensation is based on standardized testing scores.


paulg_68 posted:

2) Whatever you want kids to know, put it on the test. If you feel the tests are causing curriculums to shrink, then expand the test.

See, no semantics in my argument.





Your entire argument is about semantics.

Show me a standardized test for critical thinking that incorporates competency in reading, writing, math, and science.

Show me a standardized test that asses the ability of students to APPLY skills rather than to simply repeat the equivalent of multiplication tables.


SAT scores used to be considered a reasonable indicator of academic performance but then where was some sort of movement about how the SAT didn't test Ebonics or whatever, and also that the SAT didn't really address non-college-bound students (remember those, there actually used to be some non-college bound students in the public school system - back when there wasn't such a huge push to keep on inflating the college bubble), so apparently it was thrown out as an indicator of performance.

In its place, with NCLB, we adopted a standardized test that was designed to test the competency of the non-college bound students and we removed tracking (or most of it) in schools because that was unfair and because with all the time spent on teaching to the test, it was harder for teachers to really focus on expanding the capabilities of the higher performing students, not to mention that those students apparently had unfair advantages so they deserved less time and effort and all that other PC horsesiht, and now even exceptional students wallow in repetitive drill and regurgitate sessions to prepare them for "The Testâ„¢".

The entirety of the NCLB program was designed to deal with the lowest common denominator. In its zeal, this program threw everyone BUT the lowest common denominator schools and students under the bus and let them wallow in federally mandated mediocrity.

 

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Cawlin  4 stars
Posts: 1,759
Registered: 2005-2-22 07:58:42
ZigmundZag posted:

Cawlin posted:

ZigmundZag posted:

Yes, but freeing 1/5th of the states from it is a pretty shitty way to do business. Meanwhile the other 80% of us will slog through with the same ridiculous cookie-cutter requirements.



Did you read the article?

The states getting it waived have made their own plans and committed to implementing them, that will meet the requirements of NCLB.

NCLB is hamfisted and clumsy AT BEST, as is almost any other sort of program of its kind that is foisted on 350 million people. The states in question have taken presumably proactive steps to provide for the tenets of NCLB - writing and math competency for example - without a lot of the arduous crap NCLB brings.

Trust me, EVERY state has their own plans for tracking student performance and graduation requirements. There's not a state education department out there that couldn't submit a summary of state educational milestones, goals and requirements over time. Hopefully these 10 are just the first round of approvals.



That's the case (the bold). There was one state (New Mexico) that applied for the waiver but did not get it, and is, per the article, working with Obama's administration to get that approval.

I think that in the future, other schools that apply for this waiver will be granted it provided they have appropriate plans ready to implement to accomplish the intentions of NCLB (which are at least reasonable, if horrendously poorly implemented).

 

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Kjarhall  3 stars
Title: The Pungent One
Posts: 915
Registered: 2002-3-1 15:47:21
Pauls being obtuse again.

 

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paulg_68  4 stars
Posts: 2,469
Registered: 2009-7-27 18:45:54
Cawlin posted:

Standardized testing has a place in education, but its place is presently inappropriately emphasized. School funding and even teacher advancement and compensation is based on standardized testing scores.


If we're testing the right things, then good. If we're not, then we need better tests.


Cawlin posted:

paulg_68 posted:

2) Whatever you want kids to know, put it on the test. If you feel the tests are causing curriculums to shrink, then expand the test.

See, no semantics in my argument.





Your entire argument is about semantics.

Show me a standardized test for critical thinking that incorporates competency in reading, writing, math, and science. Show me a standardized test that asses the ability of students to APPLY skills rather than to simply repeat the equivalent of multiplication tables.


To test critical thinking I'd ask the kids if they think there is anything that can be taught that can't be tested on. If they say yes, then I'd make them take critical thinking again.

Seriously though, you need to apply some critical thinking. If the test doesn't exist that doesn't prove that testing isn't a good idea. It just proves we need better tests. I've taken a lot of wonderful tests in my life that in no way resembled repeating the multiplication table.


Cawlin posted:

it was harder for teachers to really focus on expanding the capabilities of the higher performing students, not to mention that those students apparently had unfair advantages so they deserved less time and effort and all that other PC horsesiht, and now even exceptional students wallow in repetitive drill and regurgitate sessions to prepare them for "The Testâ„¢".


I haven't been in a public school in over 25 years and that's how it was back then. The fact that high performing students get screwed by the decision to focus all our efforts on coddling lesser students wasn't created by NCLB. That's how it's always been.

 

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Sin_of_Onin  4 stars
Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
Testing is a great idea.


Relying on the government to decide what to do with the results of tests is not.

 

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