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Author Topic: Lower tax breaks for municipal bonds - Obama [Locked]
Sin_of_Onin  4 stars
Posts: 1,307
Registered: 2005-6-29 08:21:12
It makes more sense to subsidize the cities directly.

 

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paulg_68  4 stars
Posts: 2,469
Registered: 2009-7-27 18:45:54
If expanding the federal government requires Obama to ignore the impact on market signals than he ignores the impact on market signals.

If expanding the federal government requires Obama to care about market signals then he cares about market signals.

It's almost as if market signals are meaningless to him and all he really cares about is expanding the power of the federal government.

 

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Abaddon_Ambrosius  4 stars
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
Posts: 1,674
Registered: 2001-12-21 09:51:39
I... kindof don't view money you personally bond, loan or pay to various US governments being exempt from taxes as 'subsidies'.

I mean, what's the point?

I'll have to ponder that more. But I'm fairly sure the point is, it shouldn't be taxable in the first place.

PRIVATE industry loans, taxes, dividends and profits, yes. Within reason.

GOVERNMENT transactions... hmmm. The cost of administration and offering is already built into the bond up front. We shouldn't have one level of government foisting taxation or obligations onto another. That kindof goes back to that no federal mandate on the states thing, states rights, etc.

 

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Elkad  2 stars
Title: aka Ebenezer
Posts: 407
Registered: 2003-9-11 22:20:55
If you take away the municipal advantage, then more people will be driven to Treasuries. Thereby allowing the Federal Government to kick the can on overspending yet one more time.

 

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Aerlinthian  4 stars
Posts: 2,126
Registered: 2001-5-7 23:53:38
Elkad posted:

If you take away the municipal advantage, then more people will be driven to Treasuries. Thereby allowing the Federal Government to kick the can on overspending yet one more time.

That's Konspiracy talk right there!
theredkay1  3 stars
Posts: 611
Registered: 2008-5-16 10:37:09
paulg_68 posted:

using federal money to subsidize state/local debt and those bondholders = reducing federal government

Not using federal money to subsidize state/local debt and those bondholders = increasing federal government



bizzarro world!
theredkay1  3 stars
Posts: 611
Registered: 2008-5-16 10:37:09
Abaddon_Ambrosius posted:

I... kindof don't view money you personally bond, loan or pay to various US governments being exempt from taxes as 'subsidies'.

I mean, what's the point?

I'll have to ponder that more. But I'm fairly sure the point is, it shouldn't be taxable in the first place.

PRIVATE industry loans, taxes, dividends and profits, yes. Within reason.

GOVERNMENT transactions... hmmm. The cost of administration and offering is already built into the bond up front. We shouldn't have one level of government foisting taxation or obligations onto another. That kindof goes back to that no federal mandate on the states thing, states rights, etc.



Why draw the line here? Why do government workers at every level of government have to pay income taxes to the feds? Why do companies who earn income from gov't contracts have to pay income taxes?

Interest income is taxable. State govts can get around this by not using debt.
paulg_68  4 stars
Posts: 2,469
Registered: 2009-7-27 18:45:54
theredkay1 posted:

paulg_68 posted:

using federal money



bizzarro world!


Which federal money is that?

 

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_Gronk_  1 star
Posts: 142
Registered:
Above Article posted:

Individual investors who buy municipal bonds frequently have high incomes, and one of the debt's chief selling points is that they can exempt the interest from their federal income taxes. The long-standing practice allows states, local governments and authorities to offer lower interest rates on tax-exempt debt than they would on taxable bonds.

Investors buying a 10-year muni bond rated AA would need more than 80 basis points more in yield to get the same taxable equivalent as a 10-year AA-rated corporate bond using a top tax rate of 28 percent, said Richard Ciccarone, a managing director and chief research officer at McDonnell Investment Management.

"This could raise borrowing costs (for municipal issuers) because you have to make up for the tax equivalent cost," Ciccarone said.

By the middle of the day, the municipal bond market largely shrugged off the proposal, with many noting the budget must wend its way through a politically fractured Congress.

"I think everybody assumes it's dead on arrival," said Parker Colvin, managing director at Stone & Youngberg in San Francisco.



That is the White House's plan btw...


I liked the simplicity as stated by other commentators:


Greg (173 Thumbs up, 7 down) posted:

The reason municipalities can issue tax free bonds is so they can borrow money at lower rates...not so rich people can avoid taxes. Remove the tax incentive and rich folks invest elsewhere....bond rates go up...that new school costs more to finance... property taxes go up and housing becomes less affordable. How does that help anyone - except the president who can paint himself as sticking it to the man. (even though he IS the man)



Bill K: (125 thumbs up, 6 down) posted:

Perception: by removing tax breaks on muni bonds, rich people will lose a loophole and pay their "fair share". Reality: Funding for muni markets will dry up, and municipalities will have to go and beg the Federal government if they want anything done. It's ALL about the centralization of Power. If you don't like big corporations because they are more corrupt than smaller ones, don't go thinking it's any different with government, it's not.



One wonders if the thumbs downers were some people from this board...


Robert (Taliesihne?) - Boston, Massachusetts posted:

Don't worry about it. This thing is DOA. There is no way that any big city democrat mayor is going to go along with this. They are probably offering to teach a course in basic government financing to the White House as we speak.






Vote for Obama 2012!

theredkay1  3 stars
Posts: 611
Registered: 2008-5-16 10:37:09
paulg_68 posted:

Which federal money is that?





theredkay1 posted:

Oh, this explains the unhappiness here.


CBO posted:

That study concludes that the amount that the federal government forgoes through tax-exempt bond financing is greater than the associated reduction in borrowing costs for state and local governments. Some analysts have estimated the magnitude of that differential and conclude that several billion dollars each year may simply accrue to bondholders in higher income-tax brackets without providing any cost savings to borrowers.



http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=398



paulg_68 posted:

Lets just argue semantics....mmmkay?



knock yourself out.

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