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Author Topic: Have I mentioned lately that all but about 4 of you... [Locked]
Abaddon_Ambrosius  4 stars
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
Posts: 1,674
Registered: 2001-12-21 09:51:39
Yukishiro1 posted:

I fail logic 101.



Clearly.

 

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Yukishiro1  4 stars
Posts: 3,243
Registered: 2002-9-20 23:52:57
Fat Douche, MBA posted:

NOTHING MATTERS EXCEPT A BALANCED DEFICIT AMENDMENT!



Other people posted:

No. Other stuff matters too.



Fat Douche, MBA posted:

Why are you all such fanatics?!1/1/1 It must be because you don't have an advanced business degree.
Aerlinthian  4 stars
Posts: 2,126
Registered: 2001-5-7 23:53:38
"we face the most predictable economic crisis in history"

That was the presidents [Obama] own National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform back in early 2011 and the numbers have only gotten worse since then. But you freaks go on and keep up the arglebarge.


Quote:

Former Wyoming Senator Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles, the co-chairs of the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, told U.S. Senator Mike Enzi, R-Wyo., and other members of the Senate Budget Committee today that they must act on the commission's proposals because this country faces a crisis.
Quote:

"I think we face the most predictable economic crisis in history. A lot of us sitting in this room didn't see the last crisis as it came upon us, but this one is really easy to see. The fiscal path we are on today is simply not sustainable," Bowles said. "This debt and these deficits that we are incurring on an annual basis are like a cancer and they are going to truly destroy this country from within unless we have the common sense to do something about it."

"People in America are way ahead of all of you," Simpson said. "They know that if you spend more than you earn, you lose your butt. They know that if you spend a buck and borrow 40 cents of it that you are stupid...this government is stupid to borrow 40 cents for every buck you spend."


http://youtu.be/Mb5-ZsDtH00
Bobvillas  3 stars
Posts: 643
Registered: 2008-11-19 12:56:18
theredkay1 posted:

Bobvillas posted:

Ptilk posted:

The easiest way to reduce the ratio of debt to GDP is not to start austerity measures in a futile attempt to pay down the debt by destroying the economy...it's to increase GDP, something austerity never does. Ever.



The problem we are facing is that this should have been the mentality 50 years ago.

Now we are too far in the hole for our country to actually increase GDP fast enough to change course.

What you suggest is not something that can be done in the time frame we have.



What time frame are you referring to? Too far in what hole? Given the market rate of gov't bonds, the rest of the world doesnt agree. I know some people are making a moral argument against debt and dont feel there is any actual data that needs to be considered...but certainly not everyone is in that boat?

The medium term debt wasnt a problem just 11 short years ago.

10 years of slow GDP growth plus forecasted future slow growth and future medicare spending are the only real budget problems over the long term.



The highlighted area is where you said what I said in response to the solution of raising our GDP.

I agree with you.

Just ten years ago, the CBO thought federal revenue would support entitlement spending and interest payments until 2060.

That is 35 years beyond the current projection.

Currently the CBO projects that by 2025 entitlements plus net interest payments will absorb ALL of our countries revenue.

Based on this we will have nothing left to spend on defense, education, infrastructure, and R&D.

This is not a moral issue on debt for me.

It is a realistic approach to the growth of our debt to our GDP.

Should all expense categories be benchmarked against GDP growth?

Should some grow faster or slower than GDP?

If so, what are the key determinants?

These are vital questions to our next 15 years as a nation.

 

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Ptilk  4 stars
Title: Creepy old pirate
Posts: 2,359
Registered: 2002-2-13 14:52:58
Returning to 2001 tax rates and modest yearly GDP growth would soon fix the majority of budget problems. It's not an emergency, we aren't broke, we aren't in danger of going broke anytime soon.

Medicare is a growing problem and needs to be addressed, Obamacare is a step in the right direction, now we just need to add a single payer option and that will take care of most of it's issues eventually.

No matter how many "experts" scream that we are doomed, they are wrong. We aren't Greece, not even close. We just went thru the greatest world wide financial crises of the past 70+ years, of course debt increased. Panicking and making things MUCH worse by drastic cuts and short sighted stupidity demanding we "fix it now" is crazy.

Took us decades to get into the situation, we can take a little time to get out of it.
Desnoxvu  2 stars
Posts: 363
Registered: 2002-3-21 11:48:50
The graph shows a predictable consequence of our current monetary system. I used to be a liberal and believed in a big government model of economics. Then I learned about Austrian Economics and it was like waking up. The reasons for our bad economy and our debt became apparent. It was like looking at a 3d picture that finally popped out. Just like the 3d pictures some people just can't get it.

 

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Ron Paul 2012
Abaddon_Ambrosius  4 stars
Title: Retired Theurgist TL
Posts: 1,674
Registered: 2001-12-21 09:51:39
@Ptilk: Correct. The balancing doesn't have to begin now. And it probably doesn't need to be finished in under, say, 10 years. Generously.

But if you are going to even start getting there, you have to start making every single financial decision against that framework of "mandatory cap and balance" a good 15+ years out. At the very least. Probably more.

So, we are at less than zero, right now, with that fiscal planning.

Now add 6-8 years to even get the constitutional & accounting framework in place.

Now add another 2-4 years to FIX that mess because it won't be quite right.

Now add another 2-4 to start really saving anything or seeing confidence benefit.

Now add at least another 6-8 years to actually bend the curve down sustainably... forget paying anything down.

Now your impoverished kids are thinking about having your grand kids. But they're deciding against, because we're in a trebled debt hole by this point.

Now shoot out at least 10 years past THAT to achieve any measurable beginning of a past-incurred debt pay down.

As any chart will show any sane person, that *is* too long to wait.

 

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In the immortal words of Socrates - "I drank what?"
"God you guys suck at the internet - how can you fail to locate porn?!" - Eternal_Midnight
"Knowing means nothing." - Fat-badger
Ashmaele  4 stars
Title: Pastor of Muppets
Posts: 1,809
Registered: 2002-1-15 08:30:50

 

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Bobvillas  3 stars
Posts: 643
Registered: 2008-11-19 12:56:18
I am of the belief that the changes need to begin now.

It takes years for the changes to make actual measurable differences.

With expenses outstripping revenues by a large (and growing) margin, we need to develop an analytical framework for readjusting the countries business model.

Prudence would dictate that we assume below-trend GDP growth and above-trend unemployment, plus rising interest rates.

Although time is growing short, I agree we do have the capacity to create positive outcomes.

 

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"well honestly i didnt learn "jw" on the net i learned it from multiple females that have texted me. but keep on truckin broheim." Thorikos
http://fluffytit.mybrute.com
Scarne  4 stars
Title: Capo di Scientifico
Posts: 1,087
Registered: 2001-7-23 15:24:34
Ashmaele posted:




Thankfully Santorum has promised to reduce spending on food stamps but not touch a penny of defense spending.

 

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E Pluribus Unum

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