Big Pharma is similar with respect to the importance of the school you went to.

So we've got big pharma, big law, big finance...

And we've got an ever decreasing number of small to medium firms in these sectors as big[insertsectorhere] consolidates and eats up all the smaller players in the sector...

It's really stupid to continue to argue it further. There is the truth of the matter, which is that the place you got your degree matters in many sectors if you want to play amongst the biggest players, and then there are fantasies about how experience carries the day amongst those big players...

I SAW with my own two eyes the memo that circulated at one of the major pharma companies I used to work for that listed the colleges from which potential job candidates with degrees would be preferentially hired. The memo stated in no uncertain terms that hiring managers would be required to justify why they hired someone with a degree from a school not on this list if there were applicants with degrees from schools on the list - no discussion of relative qualifications, nothing... hire people with degrees from these schools or explain yourself. I saw this because my VP's secretary liked me and thought it would be nice if she happened to leave that memo on the copier when I was waiting to copy something one day... this is not something I'm making up. That list of schools was basically all ivies and a couple near ivies.





We can mince around the semantics of it all day and night, but that's unimportant really. The bottom line is that the debt to prospective income ratio for college graduates is getting worse, and it's getting worse on both sides of the equation. Debt is growing on average, and the average prospective wage for recent grads is dropping... it's a double whammy.

Bottom line, yes a college degree is decreasing in REAL value in the job market - by virtue of a lot of factors, but that's just the truth of it.

 

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my sister is a lawyer - she didnt go to a top tier school. she works as a staff lawyer so she doesnt need to get billable hours. she gets paid in the 200k range with a company car. is perkins coie considered big law? i work with their lawyers, my sister referred to them as 'expensive'. anyway, what ive gathered about the law profession is that its like a pyramid scheme; you need to find clients and then try to become a partner and start skimming from all the clients other lawyers bring to the firm.

No one's saying it's impossible to succeed in law or finance without a fancy degree. You keep thinking of things in a stupid binary way.


A fancy degree is a big advantage in many sectors of the economy. That doesn't mean that everyone with a fancy degree will succeed, or that no one without one can. It is just a big advantage, like many other things are.


Your claim that it doesn't matter beyond your first job is simply wrong. That doesn't mean the converse, that it matters more than anything else.

no, i said thats when it matters most.

if you end up working for some rinky dink company in finance and then show that you turned a 50mil deal into a 500mln payout for the firm after 5 years of work.

do you think it will matter whether you went to wharton or not when you apply at goldman?

My guess is that your sister was at or near the top of her class and was on the law review at her school. Maybe editor in chief. That counts for a lot even at lower tier law schools. The top 10% even at the shitholes that ET could get into can still land good jobs after graduation. Like I said, the averages are much more in favor of the top schools, though.

 

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Yeah, that actually is what you said. If it isn't what you meant that's your fault, not mine.

The dumbest thing of all is that most of those ivy league schools, are exactly as Yuki has mentioned - if you have the credentials to make it into them, they have such huge endowments that money will not be a reason you can't attend their school.

I think it's Harvard or Yale that makes sure that no student who otherwise qualifies for admission pays more than 10% of their parents' income per year for school. The difference is made up in endowments.

The sad truth is that THESE schools probably STILL turn out the most legit degrees around lol. They don't have pressure to lower admission standards, they don't have financial pressure to keep students around who can't cut it, they can afford to be very choosy, and truly, the majority of people attending those schools are there on merit. Yes sure, some folks get in who otherwise wouldn't because of their daddy's money, but honestly, that's more the exception in those schools than the rule. That sort of siht happens at more of the tier 2 private schools I'm sad to say...

 

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Well, words mean things. I think the term 'bubble' misrepresents the issue and we shoudl avoid it here since we can use other words that are more accurate descriptors.


The average yearly income differential in HS and college graduates was over $20,000 in 2010. Thats alot. That kind of return implies the cost of college should be much, much larger than it is today.


I think we are handling college costs wrong but its worth noting that kids are still getting a really good deal.

i still stand by it. its the only time it matters more than ypur experience on the job.

at 10 years experience youre competing with other people with 10 years experience.

as far as my sister- i dont know about law review. i do know her first job was terrible-low pay, mostly depositions and trying to get billable hours. she was miserable.

I think one think that Eodoll (depending on his engineering field) hasn't realized yet - is that even high level engineering jobs are being off shored to the lowest bidder. This leaves a top heavy engineering staff on shore to manage the off shoring activities. This shrinks the engineering positions available on shore, which in turn allows for and creates a 'network' of qualified 'Good Ole Boys'. But Engineering is unique in that results and schedules matter a bit more than in other fields (generally speaking).

 

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