The problem is fitting into a niche in peoples group setups. archers just dont fit in what people expect. a visi (or daywalker) scout can be very effective, but for the setups that albs like to run, they just dont fit.


If you try to squeeze a scout into a caster slot in the group, they will fall short on the dps.


If you try to squeeze a scout into a peel tank slot in the group, they often fall short on survivability. however, this is where they stand the best chance. det4 (and likely some purge) is obviously a must, but with that they can be a suitable peel tank with decent suvivability. whee they shine is that when there arent tanks to peel, the scout can whip out the bow and do long range interupts/dps.


they still lack a little in survivability compared to abck when they could get PD, but they can and will hold their own.


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I tried visi scout once or twice on and had few complaints about how the specs perform. the problem was that groups never wanted the scout. theyed rather takea real caster for dps or a real tank.


given how hard it was to get visi groups, it pushed me back into a hybrid spec with 45+ composite stealth. realy you dont need much weapon anyways to do good dmg, and with 46 bow you get most of what you need. so there isnt much reason to drop stealth low once you have some rr.

 

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Exactly, Scouts simply aren't a ranged DPS class, only solo Casters and Assassins would ever think that until they played an Archer themselves. The big difference is the Necro as an AF debuffer, because that sure will turn the Scout into a DPS machine on said target.

As a peeler I'd have to say in emergencies only, because again I don't think when a Zerker or Savage (coming to a fight near you TODAY!) come barreling down at you, it's going to matter much whether you're a Scout or a Caster.

Det4 would simply not be feasible until you're very high RR on the Scout, and w/o Stoic it isn't even all that anyway. You will need FE3+ for DPS, and IMO also MoS5 to at least pull your weight by popping enemy stealthers. In fact with the patch-camping going on, it's amazing we don't see more MoS5 Archers in FGs right now. You can make a killing there popping the stealth patch-campers for your group! (And you'd do us all a favor by removing them. Sounds like a win-win, so let's get some MoS5 Archers into groups this coming week at least! )

I definitely think it would be fun on a Scout with a Necro in the group to /assist, but it's probably never going to be as effective or popular as the more common setups.

 

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yeah, as with just about any class, RR is everything in making a toon group viable.


Det 4 and good body resists are enough though even without stoi. they wont make you "cc immune", but it takes the edge off most cc to the point that you arent ever really out of the fight. figure roughly 40% body resists, so duration of cc drops down to about .6*.62~=36% so a minute long root becomes about 20 seconds. which is still an eternity, until you realize that you can start moving again by the time its around 10-15. having run det4 on a pally for years, i can safely say that it works just fine withotu stoicism.


with no access to PD (qq archer nerf of years gone by), yes zerkers and tank trains hit hard. a single zerker isnt much of an issue when templated, but a train will insta gib you. however, that is where sojo shines. phase shift to extend, or fz the ma and slam the non charge tank. oddly enoguh even our worthless rr5 is marginally usefull when you are in a group and extending. you are runnign for most of the disarm duration anyways. or rofl engage the vendo zerk for a few seconds just to make them rage. it really isnt as bad as one might think. but it is this sort of thought that keeps scouts out of groups.


As for mos, you are 100% correct that it would rock for zerging stealth zergs. I never ran much mos when i was on scout in fgs, but that was because i never had the pts). The interesting thing about mos is that it that its radius bonus is fixed, regardless of your stealth skill, making it the dominant factor in stealth detection. even with no stealth, with high mos (4 or 5) you can pop people from damned far away. then again, you could just use a lore instead and save 20-34 pts.

 

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There's a grouped scout vid from a few years back, pre-archery changes.
Fools bow, high PD and MoB, it was pre-archery changes mind you.


With leggy bows still not working an archer can't really take advantage of resist debuffs and maintain a reasonable rate of fire.
Group utility wise
Scout would have the shield/guard, the hunter would the dog as an extra interupter/diseaser/frenzied attacker, the ranger would have.....

......someone help me out here

 

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Pathfinding! oh wait...

 

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Netchel, actually your own stealth level has nothing to do with your ability to detect others at all. It's all your level (vs. enemies Stealth level) and that's why visis have the exact same base detection range then Archers do, only Assassins get See Hidden to double their natural detection range. So yeah, you can be 1 Stealth and have MoS5 and it works the exact same way as it does on a 50 comp stealth Scout. As for SL, I would be running 2-3 SL items in a visi group to BOOT! That gives you well over 1k detection range...the more the better, especially when running on speed.

Speaking of, MoS is actually capped at MoS3 detection range while under the effect of a speed spell, so actually what you say makes sense...load up on SL items and MoS3, then use the other points elsewhere. That will get you a good 600+ detection range I believe...whilst running at Speed6. And that frees up a lot of RPs for Det4 & FE3+.


The problem remains that Scouts are neither a ranged DPS class nor do they have any real utility, so I doubt it will be a regularity to see one in anything but a rare/odd-ball group.

 

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sadly yes. they are just an oddball toont aht people let you run from time to time. they will never get a fixed slot.


as for old archery, pd, and pre toa, lets just say that im toying around with that very setup right now somewhere...In that situation i have a pretty good feelign that an archer could get a fixed slot.

 

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To be honest, 90% of the players left on this game are terrible and you can run a stupid setup and still win.


Let's not act like we're rewriting the rules of daoc here.


Grouping an archer is a waste, if I had to choose between an archer and a lot of things, I'd pick a lot of other things.


Unless you want to run around popping stealthers in Lab, which is where most necros hang out anyway.

 

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