Classic strategic mistake. they tried to pre empt wow with an EQ1 execution, and their loyal players left in droves. They attracted a few pve carebears but lost them when wow, the pve carebear game of all time, launched. terrible strategic thinking. They knew not what they had, and they know not what they lost.
wiciri posted: The reason 8mans could take out casual players with virtually no risk had nothing to do with them having better gear than the casual player.
As for the OP: The game is old and nothing will significantly increase the player base. What keeps the game alive is RvR, and he is right; it is why people keep coming back to it even after having been gone for years. It's good to know that they actually realize that.
I completely disagree with your first comment. Go talk to people starting the game for the first time without access to crafting friends and plat.
i beg to differ.
good 8mans farming newbs is not at all about equip or realm rank, because you don't need equip or realm rank to farm people who are new to the game. it can be done with some random equip from the marketsearcher, spending less then a few plat, in fact i believe it can be done naked (no quip at all, except weapons). competative pvp (8v8, 1vx) in daoc is all about teamplay and a huge amount of knowledge about classes, abilities, crowd control, etc., which takes very much time to learn for a causal who is new to the game (if a casual wants that amount of in depth knowledge at all - which i personally highly doubt).
the parts of daoc where excellent equip/templates an rr shine, are fighting equally strong enemies or superior numbers of inferior players.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?????????????????????????????Does he know that DAOC is an MMO?????????????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
--The point about RvR is that it's icing. His interview made me feel like Mythic lost sight of that. A MMO style game with character levels, gear levels etc. and all that must have a strong PvE foundation(which daoc clearly doesn't partly due to all of those poor UI reasons) or it's just simply not gonna work.
--Some of his comments on strong points were truly bizarre. Sieges at 2am are not much fun. It's just the only thing to do at 2am (aside from logging) that might result in you getting to fight . Getting ganked without a chance isn't all that fun either. Feeling like you are just fodder/have utterly no chance is a bad bad thing. Luckily he's mostly wrong about it. It's shown time and time again that skilled play at low ranks beats bad play at high rank. On the other hand the level curve was disastrous for pvp interation and really segregated people into PvE and RvR rather than bridge the gap between the 2. That people who had spent weeks or even months of /played time to get to 40's would be fodder to someone a few levels higher was very shortsighted, particularly when combined with the lvl 50 cap. Sadly they didn't learn and just worsened it with the first wave of bonus levels (MLs) in toa. In terms of PvP interaction the CL's are about right. Too bad the game was 5-6 years old before they figured that out and had promised us lvl 20 would be able to participate so they made stupid BG's which aren't RvR I don't care what they say.
--trumpeting the ability to RESPEC conveniently is absurd. The whole point of MMO's is to build and develop a character. Not to tear it down and remodel it every few months because of class/spec imbalances. If people didn't need to switch specs for pve/rvr/style of play they wouldn't need to respec all the damn time. If people actually leveled in any sort of meaningful way rather than powerlevel and end up training 10-40 levels at a time it wouldn't be a "feature" that would even be mentioned.
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wiciri posted: The reason 8mans could take out casual players with virtually no risk had nothing to do with them having better gear than the casual player.
As for the OP: The game is old and nothing will significantly increase the player base. What keeps the game alive is RvR, and he is right; it is why people keep coming back to it even after having been gone for years. It's good to know that they actually realize that.
I completely disagree with your first comment. Go talk to people starting the game for the first time without access to crafting friends and plat.
i beg to differ.
good 8mans farming newbs is not at all about equip or realm rank, because you don't need equip or realm rank to farm people who are new to the game. it can be done with some random equip from the marketsearcher, spending less then a few plat, in fact i believe it can be done naked (no quip at all, except weapons). competative pvp (8v8, 1vx) in daoc is all about teamplay and a huge amount of knowledge about classes, abilities, crowd control, etc., which takes very much time to learn for a causal who is new to the game (if a casual wants that amount of in depth knowledge at all - which i personally highly doubt).
the parts of daoc where excellent equip/templates an rr shine, are fighting equally strong enemies or superior numbers of inferior players.
So why bother to get TOA gear, LOL. You and I both know that TOA gear trumps skill.
therinS posted: I have to aggree with both sides. I feel that established players with cooperation, communication, sound tactics, and an understanding of the skills and abilities available to the various classes of each realm have WAY more to do with success than having the best gear. . . . .
Most players, though they do not love dieing, understand that dieing is a part of the game. What most casuals hate is going into a battle, throwing everything they have at the enemy, not scratching the enemy at all, and then almost instantly dieing.
It is a copout to say, “but even if those templates (or lack thereof) were reversed, the experienced player is still going to mop the floor with the casualâ€.
Of course most of the time the casual will die to the experienced players but it should not be 100% of the time (or 99.999%). Not with the experienced player at 99+++% health when the battle is over.
I once talked with another that held the viewpoint that it is really all skill. They said that even without the UBAR stuff they could win. I said, “But ever so often the enemy PUG may get the upper hand. It can happen. What then? Do you die or use your UBAR stuff and live?â€
They said, “It has happened where through a strange fluke of circumstances the PUG/casuals would get the upper hand and of course I would use the UBAR stuff and win. Who would die when they can win?â€
They made my point exactly.
Casuals do not mind dieing to skill. Nuclear weapons held in reserve until needed, that is not skill.
Those that think the UBAR abilities play only a small roll are kidding themselves because as soon as the casual/PUG/etc should start to seem like they may possibly win (win through someone’s mistake or through an accident of fate), those with the Nukes being held in reserve, they will pull out the Nukes and inflict sudden devastation.
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Thak0r posted: the parts of daoc where excellent equip/templates and rr shine, are fighting equally strong enemies or superior numbers of inferior players.
So why bother to get TOA gear, LOL. You and I both know that TOA gear trumps skill.
you got problems with reading son? :---P
getting decent toa gear and a good temp has never been as easy as today, so no need to qq about equipment imho.
Semi4 posted: Most players, though they do not love dieing, understand that dieing is a part of the game. What most casuals hate is going into a battle, throwing everything they have at the enemy, not scratching the enemy at all, and then almost instantly dieing.
It is a copout to say, “but even if those templates (or lack thereof) were reversed, the experienced player is still going to mop the floor with the casualâ€.
Of course most of the time the casual will die to the experienced players but it should not be 100% of the time (or 99.999%). Not with the experienced player at 99+++% health when the battle is over.
I once talked with another that held the viewpoint that it is really all skill. They said that even without the UBAR stuff they could win. I said, “But ever so often the enemy PUG may get the upper hand. It can happen. What then? Do you die or use your UBAR stuff and live?â€
They said, “It has happened where through a strange fluke of circumstances the PUG/casuals would get the upper hand and of course I would use the UBAR stuff and win. Who would die when they can win?â€
They made my point exactly.
Casuals do not mind dieing to skill. Nuclear weapons held in reserve until needed, that is not skill.
Those that think the UBAR abilities play only a small roll are kidding themselves because as soon as the casual/PUG/etc should start to seem like they may possibly win (win through someone’s mistake or through an accident of fate), those with the Nukes being held in reserve, they will pull out the Nukes and inflict sudden devastation.
could you plz name at least one UBAR ITAM that a grp could pull out of the hat to win a fight that they are about to loose? those items don't exist, they are a very old excuse of bad players. except maybe silence, the most powerful charges on items come from artifacts and those are available to everyone.
therinS Title:Camelot Vault Staff
Artist Posts: 161 Registered: 2006-1-4 04:27:28
Date Posted:1/1/00 12:00amSubject:
FAIL
Semi4 posted:
therinS posted: I have to aggree with both sides. I feel that established players with cooperation, communication, sound tactics, and an understanding of the skills and abilities available to the various classes of each realm have WAY more to do with success than having the best gear. . . . .
Most players, though they do not love dieing, understand that dieing is a part of the game. What most casuals hate is going into a battle, throwing everything they have at the enemy, not scratching the enemy at all, and then almost instantly dieing.
It is a copout to say, “but even if those templates (or lack thereof) were reversed, the experienced player is still going to mop the floor with the casualâ€.
Of course most of the time the casual will die to the experienced players but it should not be 100% of the time (or 99.999%). Not with the experienced player at 99+++% health when the battle is over.
I once talked with another that held the viewpoint that it is really all skill. They said that even without the UBAR stuff they could win. I said, “But ever so often the enemy PUG may get the upper hand. It can happen. What then? Do you die or use your UBAR stuff and live?â€
They said, “It has happened where through a strange fluke of circumstances the PUG/casuals would get the upper hand and of course I would use the UBAR stuff and win. Who would die when they can win?â€
They made my point exactly.
Casuals do not mind dieing to skill. Nuclear weapons held in reserve until needed, that is not skill.
Those that think the UBAR abilities play only a small roll are kidding themselves because as soon as the casual/PUG/etc should start to seem like they may possibly win (win through someone’s mistake or through an accident of fate), those with the Nukes being held in reserve, they will pull out the Nukes and inflict sudden devastation.
You are not making much sense. In what world is stating 'a good player having bad gear and a bad player having good gear would still favor the good player' a "Cop Out", as you mentioned? A poster above nixed your 'uber I win' button cry due to all abilities being available easily (except Silence and maybe Astral weapons) even to the casual/newb player.
No one is kidding themselves about the 'Nuclear' abilities, unless you are by suggesting that they are ONLY available to the experienced player. It is a matter of the experienced player knowing WHEN and HOW to use the 'uber I win' abilities at their disposal over the newb blowing everything on his quickbar as soon as an enemy group closes range.
I have not copped out of anything, Troll, and you have not proved anything more than that perhaps you were up too late and are not making enough sense right now.
Thak0r posted: the parts of daoc where excellent equip/templates and rr shine, are fighting equally strong enemies or superior numbers of inferior players.
So why bother to get TOA gear, LOL. You and I both know that TOA gear trumps skill.
you got problems with reading son? :---P
getting decent toa gear and a good temp has never been as easy as today, so no need to qq about equipment imho.
You failed to read the entire thread, or comprehend it....The original discussion was about TOA's impact when it launched, not now. Fact was that TOA made a huge divide between the haves and have nots, driving thousands from the game.
