Windwalkr posted:

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Uh maybe you need to read your own links a little closer, the DCOnline F2P launch attracted 120k players in TWO DAYS!


For a dead/dying game that's huge!

[colorurple] Not really. Not for something that is free. It just shows that there are many game players out there that are trying out things if they are free, but not so much if the player must pay.


What would be huge is IF the population continues to grow and IF the game can keep players rather than lose those who try out the game and IF the game can get players to pay.


It will take some time to see if all the IFs turn in favor of the game or IF it flops. [/color]


EA/Mythic would be doing back-flips if they could attract 120k free players in 2 days after launching a F2P model.


Say what you will, but the whole F2P thing is a no-brainer and is here to stay, and not unlikely at all that we'll see DAoC try it (WAR probably first though I agree). The cost of supporting free players in an existing and running MMO is minimal, and enticing a great many of them to spend at least some cash on micro-transactions each month is quite significant.


[colorurple]You are not considering the license fee that EA must pay GameStop for each WAR player. GameStop did not give Mythic the license for free. Most F2P players do not actually pay anything. It is the minority of players in a F2P game that pay the fees. EA/Bioware paying a license fee for each free account would/could easily make a F2P WAR model a black hole. (see the Zynga 'profit per user' numbers below.)[/color]


Also, the amount of resources required to implement a F2P system in an existing older game is literally peanuts as compared to doing a significant content upgrade for example, but the pay-out potential is also much greater.


[colorurple]The previously listed article about Zynga shows how difficult it is to make money using F2P.

152 million unique monthly users and only $12.5 million in actual profit. That works out to less than 8 cents profit per user per quarter (per 3 months).


With DAoC having about 20k players each paying $45 per quarter, and with the typical F2P user bringing in only 8 cents profit per quarter, DAoC would need to attract millions of players for the game to equal what it is already doing using the subscription model.


Then there is another challenge. DAoC already has all the players that like the kind of twisted game that DAoC is today. DAoC, as it is today, is not the kind of game that the typical MMO player wants to play. There is ample proof through WoW and other games that the typical MMO player is PvE centric. While many PvE centric players also PvP/RvR, for a game to be attractive to the typical MMO player the game needs good, viable and cohesive PvE (Which DAoC does not have. Most of the PvE in DAoC has been made pointless). That a F2P game model of DAoC would attract many millions is an untenable position. [/color]


I don't think that Mythic invested in all this new player experience without some planning to actually get significant amounts of new players into the game. They know they still have what many consider to be the best RvR MMO out there, but they need to shed some of their bad rep from decisions of the past:


[colorurple]I agree with this. I think that Bioware (old Mythic) is changing the game in an attempt to attract new players. Bioware is still working under the false premise that the majority of MMO players are not PvE centric, or that worthless PvE is not a big deal to the typical MMO player, or that a buggy game is not a deterrent/turnoff for noobs. It is a tremendously silly position for Bioware to take. [/color]


Buffbots are now almost irrelevant and getting to 50/ML10/Cl0 is now very quick & easy, and you can buy very competitive gear with in-game currency already.


How much work do you think it will be for them to implement micro-transactions to buy scales & glass with real money? Perhaps you noticed the EA site now stores your CC info, and don't have to re-enter it?


They already know there are plenty of customers that will pay for virtual goods & services in DAoC, you can judge that by the gold sellers & PLers that are still very active in DAoC. If DAoC didn't have a market for people paying RL cash for gold, there wouldn't be any gold farmers & PLers left but there are plenty that are still active and competing with one another.


It's a no-brainer really, and thus I'm still betting that it's probably coming at some point in the next year or so.


[colorurple] That there may be “plenty of customers that will pay” makes little difference because “Plenty” is a non-quantifiable/obscure/abstract quantity.


What is not an abstract quantity are the Zynga numbers where their average for the F2P model shows the typical player brings in only 32 cents a year in profit.


DAoC today is generating about $3.5 million. Using a F2P model DAoC would need a HUGE number of subs to equal the profit they produce using the subscription model.


In its greatest times DAoC maxed at about 260k subs and that was back when the games PvE had not been made worthless for the typical MMO player.


Given the information that is available there is only one form of F2P that would be viable for DAoC. That is to keep the subscription model that they have now (which keeps their existing income stream as it is) and to add a limited access F2P account (2 characters max, no bot type characters, secondary queue access for login, no access to a home, no mount, etc. . . ) which has already been discussed on many other threads.


Given the numbers available and given the state of PvE in DAoC today, all other forms of F2P would not be viable for DAoC at this time. [/color]

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Divination posted:

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EA management has failed to organize their games into a structure that allows people to purchase or try games on one service. This is a major failure IMO. They have awesome games, but they do not put them all in one place online. How about a log on screen where you see icons to select online games, console and PC games, and lets say you click PC games, you would then get a menu for sports games, racing games, etc, and then the ability to try the game.

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Divination posted:

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As to the licensing fees: . . . . How about one that allows you to play all of the online games for $29.99 a month or so?

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Insolent_Ant posted:

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Pointing to LotRO as a model for successful F2P is like pointing to WoW as model for successful P2P. And guess what, they are both largely PvE games. Not only that, LotRO invested heavily in a well thought out and polished plan for their F2P model. They didn't just one day decide to make the game free and slap a few purchasable items in the store. I'd also point out that the suggestions for things free players could purchase in the store are far, far too effective. You need to sell stuff like 10% xp/rp bonus for 2 hours, not things like 10 free levels or realm ranks.

Besides, DAoC's problem isn't the subscription model. It's a) an old game, with an old UI b) a PvP game c) a game with a "pay to win" via buffbot stigma.

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