Hmm.. so the other day I was doing a bit of testing on my nightshade, I got the approximate growth rates with Pierce styles:
level 34 anytime: .84
level 50 followup: .95
level 25 evade: .83
level 44 evade followup: .84.

(note: if you hit for 140 (+60 style damage), then I say that growth rate = 60/(140-60) = 60/80 = .75)

Well this is mainly irrelevant. Point is, today I did some more testing, again specced 50 into pierce, but i'm consistently getting about 4-5% less growth rate than yesterday. The only thing I can think of is that I did a /realm respec and took out Aug Str 2 and Aug Dex 2. I didn't think +8 str/dex would make much of a difference. I also respecced to be a little bit lower in Celtic Dual, but I don't see how this should effect mainhand growth rate. Well I'm just curious, anyone got any ideas?

Also on the side, any nightshades out there try a 50 Pierce spec? I just thought I'd try it to be different but I don't know yet how it compares.

Edit: I seem to remember that growth rates on styles were always the exact same (except for maybe a +/- 2% for rounding). Maybe this is not the case anymore?

 

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dunno if they changed stuff about growthrates, but a nightshade with 50 pierce is definitely more then just "exotic".

 

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I tried to test GR also and the higher the weapon spec i went the less GR i got out of it, was really dumb and just gave up on it.

 

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I had thoght someone else would have posted here since yesterday before I chimed in with my foggy details...


I've done a lot of melee testing for weapon damage vs a hybrid and a full tank, but oddly enough I never got deep into growth rates. And as much as I like formula's, never attempted to verify how it was calculated. It just wasn't something I was researching, and took the info of ' the higher your weapon spec, the more your style damage increases, but your base damage stays the same ' at face value, tho I did check that base damage is consistent. It's been some time, I intend to verify this again soon. I also accepted " weaponskill reported for weapon spec above 50 is misleading, you stop gaining WS from weapon spec once you hit 50 real or 50 composit spec ". This I checked with two rr5+ toons. It seemed to be accurate. My hybrid did not do the same damage with a 1500 ish WS with 50+15 hammers, vs my full tank with the same 1500 weapon skill, but only 50 total hammers. My tank outdamaged the hybrid. So, my conclusion was that my hybrid indeed was not recieving the benefit of WS recieved from spec above 50.


So, assuming style damage is 'supposed' to increase by it's growth rate per spec lvl, then the formula of style damage divided by base damage = growth rate would be inaccurate. Since base damage is constant, and the style damage is supposed to increase through increased spec lvl, then your growth rate would continue to change, and that can't be, the growth rate is again, a constant value.


100 base damage with 60 style damage. 60/100 = .6 ( your assumed growth rate )


100 base damage with the same style, but a higher spec lvl, produces let's say 70 additional damage.

70/100 = .7 ( this can't be, the growth rate is supposed to be constant )


So, I say unless I'm in left field somewhere, you're assumption ( vs my assumption ) about the calculation of growth rates is incorrect.


Plus, using the info from 'charplan' your listed growth rates for those 4 styles are close, but not identical to what is displayed on the 'charplan'


Second, are you using the same weapon?

are you attacking the same mob

do you have the same overall spec lvl during both your tests

Same quickness?

Same haste?


are you testing it on a very low lvl grey con mob to insure maximum damage output? or something else that won't deflect any damage.


I didn't get a chance to check this out last night like I wanted too.


Find a grey con mob,

attack without a style with 60+ weapon spec

repeat to insure consistency

record base damage,

attack with your desired style with 60+ weapon spec

repeat to insure consistency

record your style damage by subtracting the above base damage from the current total damage.


Re equip yourself so your stats are the same but you now only have 50 composit weapon spec

check base damage, it should be the same as long as you had 50 composit spec both times

check your style damage


if your style damage is increasig, then we can calculate a growth rate

if your style damage is the same, then I've learned something and need to reevaluate.


regardless, the best part is , if all of my information is garbage, at the very least, we will get a 'know it all flamer' to explain it to us.


and then we'll all know.

I thought growth rate was constant, no matter your actual or composite spec. So, a lvl 50 hero with 50 blades will get the same growth rate as a 39 blades spec lvl 50 champion and a 25 blades lvl 50 warden, as long as they are all using the same style against the same mob.


Where the difference lies is both in availability of styles (someone with base 50 spec will have access to more), damage variance, and hit chance. A hero with 50 blades spec will almost always hit harder with a given style than another hero with same WS, same weapon, against same target, using a 39 blades spec (50 CS 42 Shield 39 Blades)because the damage variance is much higher with 39 than with 50 spec. Also, a 50 spec will hit more consistently (won't be parried/blocked/evaded) against a given target due to their ability to get through a target's defense easier (on same target, since each target's chance to block/evade/parry is based on "mastery of" ra's, and dex/qui modifiers).


Or am I completely off-base?

 

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The Growth Rate is a 'constant'.

It will indeed be the same for a Hero, Champion, or NS. The growth rate will also be the same and remain constant for 50 blades, 39 blades or 25 blades. BUT, the style damage will be different. 50 blades will produce bigger numbers than 39 blades. Following the path of my first logical speculation, the 50 blades guy should out style damage the 39 blades guy by 11*growth rate.

I don't want to get into the 25 blades guy, because this low spec will not be able to reach a composite of 50 weapon. So he will be doing less base damage with the same weapon. Skewing any test results


As for a 50 blades hero doing more damage than a 39 blades hero.. This is true, but for different reasons that what you posted. The damage variance will be the same for a 50 blades and a 39+11 blades. Weapon skill returns for spec over fifty, to my understanding, does NOT provide any real increase in weapon skill. So those two heroes are identical. Except the 50 blades guy will out damage the 39 blades guy by (the styles growth rate) * (the difference in total composite spec)

if you were talking about a hero with a total of 39 blades,then we are back to him not doing full base damage because he is short of a 50 composite spec.


And Weapon Skill does indeed penetrate defense, AF, resists, evade, block, parry.

and I did a quick test last night at a friends house.


I took his kid's toon Mularn. Found me a grey mob and hit it for 124 base damage. I styled for 288.


I then removed 4 pts of weapon spec and repeated the process.

base damage was still 124.

But I only styled for 279.


so 4 pts of weapon spec yeilded 9 pts of damage. Doesn't sound great. But this was a sub 40 toon using a small weapon.


I have yet to determine the formula for calculating weapon growth, but I'm working on it.

I had a few different stats the second time I was beating up my bot, namely about 8 less str and 8 less quickness. I also had perhaps 5 points less into Celtic Dual but I don't think this would have much to do with hitting a mainhanded weapon using pierce styles.

I just thought that I remember at one point that if you hit someone 50 times, then the style damage divided by base damage would always be the same (except for a small bit of rounding error). The other night it seemed that it could be anywhere between .79 and .88 for the same style. Mind you I may have been switching weapons which would obviously explain it. But I think some of these were with the exact same gear and setup and everything.

 

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